6 ms·

> Hacker News threads are filled with users arguing that they gladly pay a lot just to avoid advertising. It is also filled with comments gist of which is “pay

by yoz-y 6y ago

> Hacker News threads are filled with users arguing that they gladly pay a lot just to avoid advertising. It is also filled with comments gist of which is “paywalled, didn’t read”. I think both models have their strengths and ultimately are not meant for the same audiences. Which is also why mixing the two in the same product is tricky.

bsder 6y ago
> It is also filled with comments gist of which is “paywalled, didn’t read”. I object mostly due to "free for me(FAANGS) but not for thee. Said article is available to the Googlebot or to Facebook but not normal mortals. If you want to be behind a wall, fine, be behind the wall--that is your prerogative. But the problem is that these articles clutter up my search results and I can't remove them.
bollorior 6y ago
I mean, you've just outlined the way that newspapers' business model is delusional and broken. Lots of people are prepared to pay them for something they make, but they have decided that they're only prepared to accept money in a specific way and on specific terms. In fact, most paywalls assume that that specific news outlet is the most important one in your life. None of them are prepared to offer you a plan based on the more realistic scenario that you occasionally want to read something of theirs of particular interest, but don't want their take on every story, nor their particular curation of what to read on a given day.
- jeremyjh 6y ago
  Great point. If there were a service I could subscribe to that would give revenue to content producers in a common network based on page views I'd be interested. I like to be able to follow links in news feeds to read particular articles but since they may be in dozens of different publications there is no way I'm going to subscribe to just any one of them. edit: maybe this is what Apple News is? I can read lots of articles but have to go in through that portal, I can't click links on Reddit. Sometimes I do go into Apple News and find the same article but that is time consuming and inconvenient and often it isn't there.
Nextgrid 6y ago
Paying a subscription for a single article is not worth it, and that's purely on monetary cost and not even accounting for the time it takes to fill the subscription form and then to cancel (and some newspapers make it extremely difficult to cancel). If there was a universal system where people could pay ~1$ in one click without having to fill in a form or provide any personal data (to reduce the risk of spam), I'm sure most people would happily pay. On the other hand, for a single product that you use significantly (like a social network) it makes sense to pay a subscription as opposed to having your time, attention and privacy compromised by ads.
- maple3142 6y ago
  Although I agree a simple system to make it easier to pay small amount of money would help, I think $1 is not everyone would accept easily. Maybe regional pricing is necessary.
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  There is no safe way to do microtransactions without also forking over some kind of personal data. How do you prevent identity theft in that world? I would go as far as to say the current Ads model is more private that a subscription or microtransaction based world. Cheap. Private. Low-friction. Pick two.
  - bollorior 6y ago
    There isn't a technical limitation here. If in 2001 you had said that web content would be paid for by multiple auctions for advertising space between data brokers who know innumerable different facts about the reader, such as their recent browsing history, purchases, demographic info, happening in real-time while the page loads, it would have seemed technically unfeasible. $100 billion in annual revenue makes lots of things possible.
  - input_sh 6y ago
    Sure there is: https://coil.com/ https://coil.com/ https://flattr.com/ https://flattr.com/ Pay one subscription, visit sites. If those sites have a specific meta tag, add-on detects it, providing you with access to paywalled articles. The longer the site keeps my attention, the more of my subscription they get. They don't have to know a single thing about me other than "I'm using this service and I have a running subscription". Service aggregates those micropayments from their subscribers within a time frame and avoids transferring small transactions and fees associated to the website.
input_sh 6y ago
I'm happy to pay for subscriptions on sites I know bring value to me over time. I'd never want to start/stop a subscription for a single article I randomly come across, and I have never stumbled upon a link that allows me to pay a buck or two to access this specific article I clicked on without starting a long term commitment with a site I've never heard of before.

by yoz-y 6y ago

bsder 6y ago

> It is also filled with comments gist of which is “paywalled, didn’t read”. I object mostly due to "free for me(FAANGS) but not for thee. Said article is available to the Googlebot or to Facebook but not normal mortals. If you want to be behind a wall, fine, be behind the wall--that is your prerogative. But the problem is that these articles clutter up my search results and I can't remove them.

bollorior 6y ago

I mean, you've just outlined the way that newspapers' business model is delusional and broken. Lots of people are prepared to pay them for something they make, but they have decided that they're only prepared to accept money in a specific way and on specific terms. In fact, most paywalls assume that that specific news outlet is the most important one in your life. None of them are prepared to offer you a plan based on the more realistic scenario that you occasionally want to read something of theirs of particular interest, but don't want their take on every story, nor their particular curation of what to read on a given day.

jeremyjh 6y ago
Great point. If there were a service I could subscribe to that would give revenue to content producers in a common network based on page views I'd be interested. I like to be able to follow links in news feeds to read particular articles but since they may be in dozens of different publications there is no way I'm going to subscribe to just any one of them. edit: maybe this is what Apple News is? I can read lots of articles but have to go in through that portal, I can't click links on Reddit. Sometimes I do go into Apple News and find the same article but that is time consuming and inconvenient and often it isn't there.

Nextgrid 6y ago

Paying a subscription for a single article is not worth it, and that's purely on monetary cost and not even accounting for the time it takes to fill the subscription form and then to cancel (and some newspapers make it extremely difficult to cancel). If there was a universal system where people could pay ~1$ in one click without having to fill in a form or provide any personal data (to reduce the risk of spam), I'm sure most people would happily pay. On the other hand, for a single product that you use significantly (like a social network) it makes sense to pay a subscription as opposed to having your time, attention and privacy compromised by ads.

maple3142 6y ago
Although I agree a simple system to make it easier to pay small amount of money would help, I think $1 is not everyone would accept easily. Maybe regional pricing is necessary.
throwaway3699 6y ago
There is no safe way to do microtransactions without also forking over some kind of personal data. How do you prevent identity theft in that world? I would go as far as to say the current Ads model is more private that a subscription or microtransaction based world. Cheap. Private. Low-friction. Pick two.
- bollorior 6y ago
  There isn't a technical limitation here. If in 2001 you had said that web content would be paid for by multiple auctions for advertising space between data brokers who know innumerable different facts about the reader, such as their recent browsing history, purchases, demographic info, happening in real-time while the page loads, it would have seemed technically unfeasible. $100 billion in annual revenue makes lots of things possible.
- input_sh 6y ago
  Sure there is: https://coil.com/ https://coil.com/ https://flattr.com/ https://flattr.com/ Pay one subscription, visit sites. If those sites have a specific meta tag, add-on detects it, providing you with access to paywalled articles. The longer the site keeps my attention, the more of my subscription they get. They don't have to know a single thing about me other than "I'm using this service and I have a running subscription". Service aggregates those micropayments from their subscribers within a time frame and avoids transferring small transactions and fees associated to the website.

input_sh 6y ago

I'm happy to pay for subscriptions on sites I know bring value to me over time. I'd never want to start/stop a subscription for a single article I randomly come across, and I have never stumbled upon a link that allows me to pay a buck or two to access this specific article I clicked on without starting a long term commitment with a site I've never heard of before.