4 ms·

Structural battery, where the battery is part of the structure is actually making the weight very competitive. We are only in the start of how batteries are in

• mrtksn 6y ago
  >heavier feeling is actually prefer by most people Any sources on that? Is this coming from a poll or questionnaire or is it your opinion(because Tesla?)? Some people like pineapple on their pizza, others eat marmite at breakfast but the heavy car likers is a first for me.
  • pjc50 6y ago
    People keep buying heavier cars and the average weight goes up over time. It's the market version of "preference"; people might say they prefer it but they choose more features most of the time.
    • mrtksn 6y ago
      This claim also needs sources but even if true Are they buying heavier cars because of the weight or they are accepting a trade off in exchange for more features like larger carrying capacity? Are there instances of people installing ballast to their light cars in order to make them heavier?
      • ianai 6y ago
        There’s been a long term trend toward bigger vehicles for decades. When gas prices locally went above 3.5-4$/gallon the trend reversed quickly. But it’s since returned. It’s an arms race. It’s hard to feel particularly safe if there are significant fractions of mobile homes barreling down the road toward you. Owning the larger vehicles isn’t fun when you need to park for that matter.
        • mrtksn 6y ago
          I know about that trend in the US but I don't think that it's fuelled by the desire of having heavier cars. Cars getting heavier is a byproduct of cars getting larger. Heavy batteries don't bring that benefit.
          • ianai 6y ago
            That’s my point. People probably aren’t looking at curb weight directly but they’ve been buying vehicles with characteristics which increase weight.
            • WorldMaker 6y ago
              Though some are looking at curb weight. On the consumer side, it's part of the marketing of vehicles like the Hummer. (On the production side, it's precisely why some vehicles have gone as close to the "commercial truck line" as they can get away with to avoid extra taxes, street restrictions, and license requirements.)
          • corty 6y ago
            Cars getting larger and heavier is a byproduct of environmental and safety regulations coupled with the consumers' desire for a constant amount of usable space and payload. More exhaust cleaning and more complex motors cost weight. Sturdier frames are also heavier. Compare e.g. the door thickness of a modern car with one from the 1990s. You can also compare the door's weight. The door will be heavier for the modern car and the thickness will cut away more from the interior space provided (since exterior dimensions are somwhat "fixed" in perception per class of car). Sit in a 1990 era Golf1 and compare to a modern Golf7. The modern version is more cramped on the inside despite being larger on the outside. And it is a good deal heavier. So yes, larger exterior will get you a heavier car, but it isn't really consumers wanting ever larger exterior dimensions. It is consumers wanting a constant interior usable space.
            • throwaway0a5e 6y ago
              All correct but you forgot a few details from that list A lot of interior space reduction for a given vehicle volume comes from the space required for a passenger cabin to have an aerodynamic shape. More "wasted" space leaves more room for crumple zones, airbags, speakers, computer modules, HVAC stuff, alternative drive-trains and all sorts of features throughout the car. Basically every engineering group in an OEM has their job made easier by making the car bigger. Making the new generation 1" bigger than the last generation is an easy way for management to please basically all the stakeholders. Vehicles at the compact end of the spectrum are moving toward the design characteristics of 1950s heavy equipment where the operator sits where he fits and that's it.
  • KozmoNau7 6y ago
    A heavier car feels more planted in relaxed everyday driving, less affected by NVH, more isolated from road imperfections and wind. The suspension will also be designed for a larger mass, so the added mass of people and freight changes the feel of the car less, as it is a smaller percentage of the car's own mass. A heavy car is objectively worse when looking at handling, fuel economy, road wear, general pollution and crash safety, but greater mass feels safer and sturdier. If an object is very light, it subjectively feels less strong, even though it may not be. Car purchases are very emotionally driven and buyers choose what feels best to them, even if it is objectively worse on many parameters. For a non-car example, I prefer riding my relatively heavy 3-speed Dutch-style bicycle to my old aluminum-framed 8-speed sporty citybike, even though the latter is objectively faster, turns more crisply and has a better gear range. Simply because the heavier bike is less perturbed over bumps and the wider tires soak up imperfections better.
• disiplus 6y ago
  > heavier feeling is actually prefer by most people. what ? nobody prefers it. there are people that tolerate it and those that don't know better. weight kills driving dynamics, everybody that claims otherwise does not care or did not drive a lightweight car.
  • dandellion 6y ago
    I haven't heard that either, but I have read that the batteries at the bottom give the car a lower center of mass which can be a good thing in curves from my understanding, but that's different from just a "heavier feeling" which I don't see why anyone would prefer that.
    • buran77 6y ago
      > I haven't heard that either Of course because it's absolute nonsense. We spent the last several decades trying to make vehicles lighter for their size, and nobody loads their car with bricks and sandbags to get that "heavier feeling". Lower center of gravity is great but completely decoupled from the overall mass of the vehicle. The fact that the comment came back from downvote graveyard is a testament that not only will people say anything to support even a ludicrous claim, many others will support it without batting an eye.
    • dragonwriter 6y ago
      People would prefer it because it counteracts body lift, which reduces traction. Even if people don't understand the physics of why it works, the handling impacts are pretty apparent, especially out of low-speed city or heavy-traffic driving.
  • NathanielK 6y ago
    The heavier feel may not be preferred, but it makes having a flexible, cheap suspension design much easier. For example small carthat weighs 1000kg may be be expected to carrier 4-5 adults, an additional ~350kg. To do this the suspension must be overly sprung (and possibly under damped) for a single driver. A 2000kg Tesla means that even without air suspension or adaptive shocks, it will ride much better with a single driver while still being a capable of a high payload. Having a large battery also moves the unsprung:sprung mass ratio favourably. Specialty vehicles like sports cars and offroad trucksand where payload rating is not a concern function much better the lighter they are though.