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| I take a very SFBA perspective here I don't know how useful an SFBA perspective is, given that area is dealing with factors that very, very few other places

| I take a very SFBA perspective here I don't know how useful an SFBA perspective is, given that area is dealing with factors that very, very few other places in America are: Namely, an historic single industry boom and a lack of expansion area. The only real comparable place in America is Manhattan.

zamfi 6y ago
Yeah, you're right that there are a number of SFBA-specific factors that don't apply elsewhere. But people aren't really making the rent control argument about Peoria, IL. Any place that caps both rents and housing supply through policy amid increasing demand (like Berlin, the titular locale), is going to have a ton of politics around rent control, density caps, etc., because they are choosing to allocate scarce resources by policy instead of market -- and the way to affect policy is politics.
- heterodoxxed 6y ago
  | people aren't really making the rent control argument about Peoria, IL. We are more than you think. Rising rents due to speculation or just plain landlord greed have become an issue country-wide. Even in places like Peoria. Especially in relation to stagnant wages. I advocate a combination of strong rent control, aggressively subsidized housing and consistent growth (especially vertically) where possible.
  - zamfi 6y ago
    > Rising rents due to speculation or just plain landlord greed Well, you'd need both, not just one: landlord greed has a cap, average rents can't be much more than the cost of buying, though there will always be some folks who don't qualify for a mortgage for whatever reason. The only reason landlords can be greedy is the leverage they have because supply is constrained -- otherwise, their greed would be thwarted by developers' greed! Speculation and landlord greed only really affect prices in a supply-constrained environment. In markets where housing is a commodity, and can actually be produced, the cost of housing tends towards the cost of land acquisition & construction. Not always smoothly, of course...if demand jumps very suddenly, the construction market needs time to adjust, etc.
    - heterodoxxed 6y ago
      That assumes the market is rational and the actors within are rational.
      - zamfi 6y ago
        I guess? But > I advocate a combination of strong rent control, aggressively subsidized housing and consistent growth (especially vertically) where possible. That assumes rational actors in local government, which strikes me as even more fanciful.
        heterodoxxed 6y ago
        I'm of the mind that markets may be rational *given* (and here's the key) a long enough time period. However, human needs have an expiration date and often cannot wait for the market to make sense. | That assumes rational actors in local government No it doesn't, if you can build enough power you can force local governments to enact these kinds of reforms. All politicians can be pressured if you know where to push.
        zamfi 6y ago
        Yes, on the one hand you could bet on the power of a bunch of individuals the system serves well-enough (after all, they're still here!) to apply political pressure to some set of local governments (though, note that rent control is starting to be regulated at the state level) to change policy to help the less-well-off in their neighborhoods. On the other hand, you could bet on "rational activity" from landlords and developers—aka greedy self-interest. So, sure, you might get a conscientious grassroots group to apply political pressure for rent control when it's not in their own self-interest. But you can 100% count on developers and landlords to be greedy, and I'd much rather channel that group into the outcome I want while I wait and hope for the former.
        heterodoxxed 6y ago
        | a bunch of individuals the system serves well-enough Again, are you talking about SFBA? Because I thought we addressed that.

zamfi 6y ago

Yeah, you're right that there are a number of SFBA-specific factors that don't apply elsewhere. But people aren't really making the rent control argument about Peoria, IL. Any place that caps both rents and housing supply through policy amid increasing demand (like Berlin, the titular locale), is going to have a ton of politics around rent control, density caps, etc., because they are choosing to allocate scarce resources by policy instead of market -- and the way to affect policy is politics.

heterodoxxed 6y ago
| people aren't really making the rent control argument about Peoria, IL. We are more than you think. Rising rents due to speculation or just plain landlord greed have become an issue country-wide. Even in places like Peoria. Especially in relation to stagnant wages. I advocate a combination of strong rent control, aggressively subsidized housing and consistent growth (especially vertically) where possible.
- zamfi 6y ago
  > Rising rents due to speculation or just plain landlord greed Well, you'd need both, not just one: landlord greed has a cap, average rents can't be much more than the cost of buying, though there will always be some folks who don't qualify for a mortgage for whatever reason. The only reason landlords can be greedy is the leverage they have because supply is constrained -- otherwise, their greed would be thwarted by developers' greed! Speculation and landlord greed only really affect prices in a supply-constrained environment. In markets where housing is a commodity, and can actually be produced, the cost of housing tends towards the cost of land acquisition & construction. Not always smoothly, of course...if demand jumps very suddenly, the construction market needs time to adjust, etc.
  - heterodoxxed 6y ago
    That assumes the market is rational and the actors within are rational.
    - zamfi 6y ago
      I guess? But > I advocate a combination of strong rent control, aggressively subsidized housing and consistent growth (especially vertically) where possible. That assumes rational actors in local government, which strikes me as even more fanciful.
      - heterodoxxed 6y ago
        I'm of the mind that markets may be rational *given* (and here's the key) a long enough time period. However, human needs have an expiration date and often cannot wait for the market to make sense. | That assumes rational actors in local government No it doesn't, if you can build enough power you can force local governments to enact these kinds of reforms. All politicians can be pressured if you know where to push.
        zamfi 6y ago
        Yes, on the one hand you could bet on the power of a bunch of individuals the system serves well-enough (after all, they're still here!) to apply political pressure to some set of local governments (though, note that rent control is starting to be regulated at the state level) to change policy to help the less-well-off in their neighborhoods. On the other hand, you could bet on "rational activity" from landlords and developers—aka greedy self-interest. So, sure, you might get a conscientious grassroots group to apply political pressure for rent control when it's not in their own self-interest. But you can 100% count on developers and landlords to be greedy, and I'd much rather channel that group into the outcome I want while I wait and hope for the former.
        heterodoxxed 6y ago
        | a bunch of individuals the system serves well-enough Again, are you talking about SFBA? Because I thought we addressed that.