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We don't know the poolsize for any of these numbers. Hope the lawsuit goes into that. Would be good to see numbers for all ethnicities as a comparison. For eg

We don't know the poolsize for any of these numbers. Hope the lawsuit goes into that. Would be good to see numbers for all ethnicities as a comparison. For eg: how many asian people at amazon vs directors? Offhand, I think you will see that there are fewer asian directors when considering the total asian pop at amazon vs white. Is that a problem? From my anecdotal experience, I just don't see too many black or latino people in tech companies so I would assume this is partly a pipeline issue which we can address at the correct spot in the funnel rather than bringing in token black l8s. Otherwise the next spate of articles will say "Black L8s fired at higher rates than other ethnicites". Also, re-levelling during interviews is common at Amazon: just because you applied for a position doesnt mean there are enough data-points in the interview that support you getting that position (esp at L6+ level), but we may think you are "amazonian" enough to be extended an offer with re-level. What probably happened is the candidate was re-leveled, then was setup for success by being provided multiple opportunities to prove themselves, which took a few years. This also makes sense because a promo-doc requires consistent evidence of performing at the next level. Now, a senior manager should know all this so A) this is a bad faith lawsuit driven by entitlement or, B) she decided that this was a big enough problem to burn a few bridges. I'm interested to see what data the lawsuit dredges up.

bradhe 6y ago
I'm wondering how clear it was to her about the re-level when she accepted the offer. I'm sure it must have been pretty clear? I agree with what you're supposing in terms of how it likely went down. I don't think that would really qualify as "doing the work of another level" or whatever they originally said. Great insight, too, on the subsequent headline if Amazon just starts recruiting black candidates willy-nilly.
- throwaay 6y ago
  When you accept the offer, the recruiter should have messaged it similar to what I said (ie: you have been re-leveled at l6). Also, comp ranges are very different + you can easily see what level you are. Failing that, after accepting the offer and doing some interviews + performance management as an L7, the situation would have been clear.
philwelch 6y ago
> From my anecdotal experience, I just don't see too many black or latino people in tech companies so I would assume this is partly a pipeline issue which we can address at the correct spot in the funnel rather than bringing in token black l8s. The thing is, this wasn’t a tech role. It was in “public policy” which I take to mean lobbying, and her previous experience was as a staffer to a US Senator. So her career is in politics rather than tech. The other thing is that suing a broadly unpopular company for discrimination isn’t really going to be a career limiting move. Most companies settle most lawsuits, so you get to put on your resume that you successfully and publicly sued a big unpopular company for discrimination. But maybe I’m just being cynical about people who go into professional politics.

bradhe 6y ago

I'm wondering how clear it was to her about the re-level when she accepted the offer. I'm sure it must have been pretty clear? I agree with what you're supposing in terms of how it likely went down. I don't think that would really qualify as "doing the work of another level" or whatever they originally said. Great insight, too, on the subsequent headline if Amazon just starts recruiting black candidates willy-nilly.

throwaay 6y ago
When you accept the offer, the recruiter should have messaged it similar to what I said (ie: you have been re-leveled at l6). Also, comp ranges are very different + you can easily see what level you are. Failing that, after accepting the offer and doing some interviews + performance management as an L7, the situation would have been clear.

philwelch 6y ago

> From my anecdotal experience, I just don't see too many black or latino people in tech companies so I would assume this is partly a pipeline issue which we can address at the correct spot in the funnel rather than bringing in token black l8s. The thing is, this wasn’t a tech role. It was in “public policy” which I take to mean lobbying, and her previous experience was as a staffer to a US Senator. So her career is in politics rather than tech. The other thing is that suing a broadly unpopular company for discrimination isn’t really going to be a career limiting move. Most companies settle most lawsuits, so you get to put on your resume that you successfully and publicly sued a big unpopular company for discrimination. But maybe I’m just being cynical about people who go into professional politics.