5 ms·

The thing I hate is headlines like this WaPo headline: "If curtailing racist imagery in Dr. Seuss is ‘cancel culture,’ what, exactly, is your culture?" Let's g

The thing I hate is headlines like this WaPo headline: "If curtailing racist imagery in Dr. Seuss is ‘cancel culture,’ what, exactly, is your culture?" Let's get over the clickbaity title and look at their actual argument. They think that it is worth cancelling these things because of "racist imagery." But who are they to decide what is and isn't racist? The goalposts literally shift on this every day. I grew up saying "I don't see color", and now this isn't even OK to say anymore. Are we really going to let a bunch of totalitarian journalists anoint themselves as the ministry of truth? Does anyone seriously want to live in a world where journalists have the power to decide the definition of racism and immediately convict those who don't meet the new criteria? I don't really see a way out of this for now, because it appears that Twitter and journalists have the CEOs of America by the balls. I think we are pretty much going to see a major economic civil war in this country, with mass quittings and firings, before people actually come to their senses.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> They think that it is worth cancelling these things because of "racist imagery." But who are they to decide what is and isn't racist? The people who made the decision about problematic content here were Seuss Enterprises, LLC, the owners of the content. > I grew up saying "I don't see color", and now this isn't even OK to say anymore. Um, it was never okay to say: this has been mocked in popular culture for decades as a signal of privilege and avoidance of real racial issues.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Then, if you legitimately want to say that you treat people as individuals, not as members of a "color" or "ethnicity", what do you say?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    In general, the correct answer to “if you really want to say ‘X’, what do you say” is ‘X’. Of course, if you really see people as individuals, you probably won’t deny that racial and ethnic identity and experiences tied to both that and ascribed race/ethnicity (which often, but not always, correspond to identity) are often, especially for people in racial and/or ethnic groups that have been marginalized (no matter how much that might not have been by you), an important part of who they are and what you need to understand to understand them. Viewing people in the context of a counterfactual idealized world isn't seeing them as individuals, but as figurines in your personal fantasy diorama.
    - IAmWorried 6y ago
      Wow. In my book, you are extremely racist. Treating people a certain way based on skin color just because you automatically assume that this means they have the same life experiences? Dude... What about people who are just trying to live their lives and have a good time? People who don't try to create division by making every little thing about race? I have been friends with many people over the years from many different nationalities and ethnicities, and I don't know a single one that would want me to treat them differently due to their race. I just try to be a good person to everyone. I know I'm wasting air here, but honestly, I do think views like this are the problem. You may think you are helping, but this does nothing but divide people.
      - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
        I didn't read dragonwriter's comment that way. If someone is black, say, and has experienced some examples of blatant, overt racism, that affects who they are. If I want to interact with them as them, well, that's part of "them". I can't treat them like someone who has no race, who therefore had no such experiences. Ditto for any other race/ethnicity/national background. I suspect that you think dragonwriter meant that I should assume "hmm, black person, therefore has been on the receiving end of racism". I didn't read it that way. I agree with you that it would be wrong to make such an assumption (or any assumption based on their race). But I think dragonwriter's point is different: Their race has shaped their lives in certain ways. Don't ignore that part of who they are.
- IAmWorried 6y ago
  If you think it isn't OK to treat people the same regardless of who they are, you must live in Portland. I seem to recall someone saying "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Must have been Trump, right?

dragonwriter 6y ago

> They think that it is worth cancelling these things because of "racist imagery." But who are they to decide what is and isn't racist? The people who made the decision about problematic content here were Seuss Enterprises, LLC, the owners of the content. > I grew up saying "I don't see color", and now this isn't even OK to say anymore. Um, it was never okay to say: this has been mocked in popular culture for decades as a signal of privilege and avoidance of real racial issues.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Then, if you legitimately want to say that you treat people as individuals, not as members of a "color" or "ethnicity", what do you say?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  In general, the correct answer to “if you really want to say ‘X’, what do you say” is ‘X’. Of course, if you really see people as individuals, you probably won’t deny that racial and ethnic identity and experiences tied to both that and ascribed race/ethnicity (which often, but not always, correspond to identity) are often, especially for people in racial and/or ethnic groups that have been marginalized (no matter how much that might not have been by you), an important part of who they are and what you need to understand to understand them. Viewing people in the context of a counterfactual idealized world isn't seeing them as individuals, but as figurines in your personal fantasy diorama.
  - IAmWorried 6y ago
    Wow. In my book, you are extremely racist. Treating people a certain way based on skin color just because you automatically assume that this means they have the same life experiences? Dude... What about people who are just trying to live their lives and have a good time? People who don't try to create division by making every little thing about race? I have been friends with many people over the years from many different nationalities and ethnicities, and I don't know a single one that would want me to treat them differently due to their race. I just try to be a good person to everyone. I know I'm wasting air here, but honestly, I do think views like this are the problem. You may think you are helping, but this does nothing but divide people.
    - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      I didn't read dragonwriter's comment that way. If someone is black, say, and has experienced some examples of blatant, overt racism, that affects who they are. If I want to interact with them as them, well, that's part of "them". I can't treat them like someone who has no race, who therefore had no such experiences. Ditto for any other race/ethnicity/national background. I suspect that you think dragonwriter meant that I should assume "hmm, black person, therefore has been on the receiving end of racism". I didn't read it that way. I agree with you that it would be wrong to make such an assumption (or any assumption based on their race). But I think dragonwriter's point is different: Their race has shaped their lives in certain ways. Don't ignore that part of who they are.
IAmWorried 6y ago
If you think it isn't OK to treat people the same regardless of who they are, you must live in Portland. I seem to recall someone saying "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Must have been Trump, right?