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I agree that this is important, and less meat consumption is good, but I am kind of upset that the entire American culinary experience is being reduced to "burg

I agree that this is important, and less meat consumption is good, but I am kind of upset that the entire American culinary experience is being reduced to "burgers, pizza, and fried chicken." I say that because most of the articles on meat alternatives are written from the perspective of "if only Americans can stop eating hamburgers!" First off, in terms of global solutions, that isn't going to fly. Try going to Italy and telling people "we've replaced all your meat, with a ground beef alternative!" and see how pissed people get. Countries around the world have culinary traditions older than America itself. Many of these traditional preparations of various cuts of meat are a huge part of culture and history. Second off, I, an American, don't even eat hamburgers[1] more than once or twice a year. And I'm not going to switch all my meat eating over to meat alternative hamburgers. Of course replacing some meat is good, my main complaint is how so many articles reduce American food to just a few categories. I have the same problem when friends come to visit from overseas, or even friends who've been in America for awhile (sometimes years!) who have no idea that American food is anything other than burgers and pizza. [1] I eat sausages a bit more frequently, which I could fill with a plant based alternative.

jimktrains2 6y ago
> Countries around the world have culinary traditions older than America itself. Many of these traditional preparations of various cuts of meat are a huge part of culture and history. Many of these traditions include "new world" ingredients such as tomatoes, potatoes, bell peppers, corn, squash, some beans, &c that wouldn't become common in europe or asia until the 16th or 17th century. While still older than the founding of the united states, they're still "newer" than many people realize. These new ingredients were incorporated into older traditions just as new ingredients will be. Noöne will force it on anyone, but people will experiment and find culinary and economic reasons to use new ingredients.
- astura 6y ago
  Very good point, for example, I think of dragon fruit as being 100% an Asian food so I was shocked to find out it's indigenous to the Americas.
- cat199 6y ago
  > Noöne who is Noöne? never heard of them. Is that Greta Thunberg's more radical twin?
  - astura 6y ago
    In case this is an actual question, the two dots on the second o are called diaeresis and it's to tell you that letter starts a new syllable. You'll see it in words like naïve, coöperate, and reëlect and names such as Zoë and Chloë. Somewhat rare to include in today, but stuffy publications such as the New Yorker have a style guide that requires the diaeresis.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
lemmsjid 6y ago
As a fellow American, I also just eat a few hamburgers per year. I actually prefer non meat burgers to regular, though I love high quality meat (though I don't it it very often). I like to primary source stuff and can't find a hard, verified number in my limited Googling, but as far as I can tell our consumption is incredibly low compared to the per capita average (over a hundred per year, into the multi hundreds per year depending on region). The key is not to get people who are eating 2 per year down to 0, but to get people eating hundreds per year down to, I dunno, 10? Either way we can picture a sustainable economy in which high quality plant based meals are cheap, and then everyone gets their high quality meat meals less frequently and for an amount of money that is commensurate with their ecological impact.
- thorin 6y ago
  I'm naively asking this as someone from England, I can easily go to a farm nearby. Even though I live on the outskirts of a city there are numerous options within say 10 miles of me. I go to the farm and the chances are they have a shop selling fresh or frozen in season meat (as well as cheese, eggs, veg or unpasturised milk). I can get advice on cuts and cooking from the butcher there and it will cost 50-100% more than it would in the supermarket. It will also taste twice as good. I don't do this that often, but it's a good experience, and I'd like to do it more in the future. Of course these places will mail frozen meat to your house too. Is this kind of thing an option in the US? I'm pretty sure it's common in most of Europe still.
  - violetgarden 6y ago
    That’s really cool! I’m in the US, and the farms I have seen are so large, I don’t think a normal person could pop in and ask questions. I’ve never seen a building near one of these farms because the rows of vegetation goes on for miles it seems like. That said, smaller farms and dining experiences are popping up all over. I feel like the local, craft experience has been really popular and is trending us back to seasonal, organic ingredients. I was just saying to a friend the other day that I feel like I don’t know what season anything is in because we can get so much produce all year round. We’ve started little veggie gardens in our yards and were trying to sus out what we could plant.
dheera 6y ago
> Second off, I, an American, don't even eat hamburgers[1] more than once or twice a year. And I'm not going to switch all my meat eating over to meat alternative hamburgers. You're also likely in a privileged class of Americans. Unfortunately the US government indirectly subsidizes meat. Hamburgers and fried meat of sorts are staples of the low-income class. The meat consumption in that class is off the charts, and at extremely unhealthy levels for both the body and the planet. Ideally, the government should be subsidizing a variety of healthy vegetables for human consumption, not corn (which indirectly subsidizes both meat and HFCS). That policy change alone would fix a lot of nutritional deficiencies, heart disease, obesity, and numerous other problems.
- com2kid 6y ago
  Various cuts of pork, tougher cuts of beef, and until recently, chicken thighs (which can still occasionally be fund on sale for under $2 a pound), are dirt cheap. In college bone in skin on chicken thighs were more my go to than pre-made ground beef. > Ideally, the government should be subsidizing a variety of healthy vegetables for human consumption I agree with you in general, but for pure sake of "being alive" the government is going to subsidize something that has calories. Kale may be good for people in the general sense, but even at 25 cents a bunch, it isn't going to fill any bellies. Starches or protein, one or the other. Getting people to eat vegetables is largely cultural, though $ is certainly part of it, and a part that needs to be addressed.
  - jiofih 6y ago
    Cooking at home, going to college. That’s still a privileged life. Who suggested Kale? Just eating plain baked potatoes would be a massive improvement in health.
input_sh 6y ago
> "we've replaced all your meat, with a ground beef alternative!" I'm sorry but who ever says anything about replacing all meat? It's more about having a readily available alternative and starting to think of meat as a luxury instead of it being a part of every meal.
- mike_d 6y ago
  > starting to think of meat as a luxury I remember growing up drinking soda with every meal because the common perception was that you ordered water at a restaurant only if that was all you could afford. Trying to make meat a luxury is the best way to ensure long term increasing demand.
  - neolog 6y ago
    > I remember growing up drinking soda with every meal because the common perception was that you ordered water at a restaurant only if that was all you could afford. That's really interesting. Where was that?
    - ddalex 6y ago
      Probably somewhere where human labour costs less then soda.
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  The working class doesn’t get to eat luxury food so yeah it’s about replacing all meat with substitutes.
  - input_sh 6y ago
    It's all about personal perception. I'm definitely not a vegan nor a vegetarian, but most of my meals don't contain meat. I don't keep track, but I estimate that I eat meat approximately two or three times a month. Though I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of taxing meat down the line (depending on the implementation), and I'm definitely in favour of cutting back subsidies.
h0l0cube 6y ago
> I am kind of upset that the entire American culinary experience is being reduced to "burgers, pizza, and fried chicken." I think the reason why burgers and other processed foods are the first to be tackled by fake meat start-ups, is that processed foods are easier to imitate, and quite likely burgers have the largest consumption of any processed food on the market. From both a profitability and environmental standpoint, any small win here, has an outsized impact.
ip26 6y ago
I also eat few burgers, but Americans average 3 burgers a week- and even more chicken than beef. So more or less, "burgers, pizza, and fried chicken" is not that far off.
lovemenot 6y ago
It's not only about American foods. Arguably a bigger impact might happen in China, which has been reacting to a Swine fever that has made pork - a staple - in many cases too expensive or unavailable. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Food-Beverage/Chinese-startup-s-plant-based-meat-sizzles-like-real-thing https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Food-Beverage/Chinese-start... https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-trends/Japan-s-plant-based-meat-industry-beefs-up-its-menu https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-trends/Japan-s-pla...
markwkw 6y ago
I don’t think it’s a problem of articles. It’s a problem of reality, of emerging american culture. Majority of people are eating burgers, chicken and pizza plus perhaps some common mexican dishes. If you asked random people in the street: what american dishes are there? would their answer be different from the above?
helsinkiandrew 6y ago
You're in the minority though - there appears to be 50 billion hamburgers eating in the US every year which is about 150 per person. Meat substitutes are a transitionary item - for those used to eating meat. I've been vegan for 35 years and rarely cook with them (tempeh and tofu are the only things that come close). I get plenty of protein from vegetables, beans etc. and the thought of eating a mock meat just doesn't appeal to me (I'll occasionally eat a burger when out but I find Beyond burgers taste like the burgers sold in cheap fast food joints smell like.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  > in the US every year which is about 150 per person. Is the average person in the US really eating 3 hamburgers per week?
  - violetgarden 6y ago
    I’m American, and I don’t know anyone who eats this much hamburger. A lot of us find them to be pretty heavy, so it’s more like a meal that you have once in a blue moon. However, someone commented below that it might just be the income bracket we’re in. Poorer people might be consuming more of them because they’re cheap and fast to get.
  - helsinkiandrew 6y ago
    Actually, sorry I picked up that number from the internet it's a USDA figure of the equivalent amount of burgers for all the meat consumed in the US (50 Billion) but is quoted by every bad website and news outlet as the number of burgers sold.
ricardobayes 6y ago
No need to go that far, just try replacing cheese. There's surprisingly few Italian food items left.

jimktrains2 6y ago

> Countries around the world have culinary traditions older than America itself. Many of these traditional preparations of various cuts of meat are a huge part of culture and history. Many of these traditions include "new world" ingredients such as tomatoes, potatoes, bell peppers, corn, squash, some beans, &c that wouldn't become common in europe or asia until the 16th or 17th century. While still older than the founding of the united states, they're still "newer" than many people realize. These new ingredients were incorporated into older traditions just as new ingredients will be. Noöne will force it on anyone, but people will experiment and find culinary and economic reasons to use new ingredients.

astura 6y ago
Very good point, for example, I think of dragon fruit as being 100% an Asian food so I was shocked to find out it's indigenous to the Americas.
cat199 6y ago
> Noöne who is Noöne? never heard of them. Is that Greta Thunberg's more radical twin?
- astura 6y ago
  In case this is an actual question, the two dots on the second o are called diaeresis and it's to tell you that letter starts a new syllable. You'll see it in words like naïve, coöperate, and reëlect and names such as Zoë and Chloë. Somewhat rare to include in today, but stuffy publications such as the New Yorker have a style guide that requires the diaeresis.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

lemmsjid 6y ago

As a fellow American, I also just eat a few hamburgers per year. I actually prefer non meat burgers to regular, though I love high quality meat (though I don't it it very often). I like to primary source stuff and can't find a hard, verified number in my limited Googling, but as far as I can tell our consumption is incredibly low compared to the per capita average (over a hundred per year, into the multi hundreds per year depending on region). The key is not to get people who are eating 2 per year down to 0, but to get people eating hundreds per year down to, I dunno, 10? Either way we can picture a sustainable economy in which high quality plant based meals are cheap, and then everyone gets their high quality meat meals less frequently and for an amount of money that is commensurate with their ecological impact.

thorin 6y ago
I'm naively asking this as someone from England, I can easily go to a farm nearby. Even though I live on the outskirts of a city there are numerous options within say 10 miles of me. I go to the farm and the chances are they have a shop selling fresh or frozen in season meat (as well as cheese, eggs, veg or unpasturised milk). I can get advice on cuts and cooking from the butcher there and it will cost 50-100% more than it would in the supermarket. It will also taste twice as good. I don't do this that often, but it's a good experience, and I'd like to do it more in the future. Of course these places will mail frozen meat to your house too. Is this kind of thing an option in the US? I'm pretty sure it's common in most of Europe still.
- violetgarden 6y ago
  That’s really cool! I’m in the US, and the farms I have seen are so large, I don’t think a normal person could pop in and ask questions. I’ve never seen a building near one of these farms because the rows of vegetation goes on for miles it seems like. That said, smaller farms and dining experiences are popping up all over. I feel like the local, craft experience has been really popular and is trending us back to seasonal, organic ingredients. I was just saying to a friend the other day that I feel like I don’t know what season anything is in because we can get so much produce all year round. We’ve started little veggie gardens in our yards and were trying to sus out what we could plant.

dheera 6y ago

> Second off, I, an American, don't even eat hamburgers[1] more than once or twice a year. And I'm not going to switch all my meat eating over to meat alternative hamburgers. You're also likely in a privileged class of Americans. Unfortunately the US government indirectly subsidizes meat. Hamburgers and fried meat of sorts are staples of the low-income class. The meat consumption in that class is off the charts, and at extremely unhealthy levels for both the body and the planet. Ideally, the government should be subsidizing a variety of healthy vegetables for human consumption, not corn (which indirectly subsidizes both meat and HFCS). That policy change alone would fix a lot of nutritional deficiencies, heart disease, obesity, and numerous other problems.

com2kid 6y ago
Various cuts of pork, tougher cuts of beef, and until recently, chicken thighs (which can still occasionally be fund on sale for under $2 a pound), are dirt cheap. In college bone in skin on chicken thighs were more my go to than pre-made ground beef. > Ideally, the government should be subsidizing a variety of healthy vegetables for human consumption I agree with you in general, but for pure sake of "being alive" the government is going to subsidize something that has calories. Kale may be good for people in the general sense, but even at 25 cents a bunch, it isn't going to fill any bellies. Starches or protein, one or the other. Getting people to eat vegetables is largely cultural, though $ is certainly part of it, and a part that needs to be addressed.
- jiofih 6y ago
  Cooking at home, going to college. That’s still a privileged life. Who suggested Kale? Just eating plain baked potatoes would be a massive improvement in health.

input_sh 6y ago

> "we've replaced all your meat, with a ground beef alternative!" I'm sorry but who ever says anything about replacing all meat? It's more about having a readily available alternative and starting to think of meat as a luxury instead of it being a part of every meal.

mike_d 6y ago
> starting to think of meat as a luxury I remember growing up drinking soda with every meal because the common perception was that you ordered water at a restaurant only if that was all you could afford. Trying to make meat a luxury is the best way to ensure long term increasing demand.
- neolog 6y ago
  > I remember growing up drinking soda with every meal because the common perception was that you ordered water at a restaurant only if that was all you could afford. That's really interesting. Where was that?
  - ddalex 6y ago
    Probably somewhere where human labour costs less then soda.
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
The working class doesn’t get to eat luxury food so yeah it’s about replacing all meat with substitutes.
- input_sh 6y ago
  It's all about personal perception. I'm definitely not a vegan nor a vegetarian, but most of my meals don't contain meat. I don't keep track, but I estimate that I eat meat approximately two or three times a month. Though I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of taxing meat down the line (depending on the implementation), and I'm definitely in favour of cutting back subsidies.

h0l0cube 6y ago

> I am kind of upset that the entire American culinary experience is being reduced to "burgers, pizza, and fried chicken." I think the reason why burgers and other processed foods are the first to be tackled by fake meat start-ups, is that processed foods are easier to imitate, and quite likely burgers have the largest consumption of any processed food on the market. From both a profitability and environmental standpoint, any small win here, has an outsized impact.

ip26 6y ago

I also eat few burgers, but Americans average 3 burgers a week- and even more chicken than beef. So more or less, "burgers, pizza, and fried chicken" is not that far off.

lovemenot 6y ago

It's not only about American foods. Arguably a bigger impact might happen in China, which has been reacting to a Swine fever that has made pork - a staple - in many cases too expensive or unavailable. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Food-Beverage/Chinese-startup-s-plant-based-meat-sizzles-like-real-thing https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Food-Beverage/Chinese-start... https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-trends/Japan-s-plant-based-meat-industry-beefs-up-its-menu https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-trends/Japan-s-pla...

markwkw 6y ago

I don’t think it’s a problem of articles. It’s a problem of reality, of emerging american culture. Majority of people are eating burgers, chicken and pizza plus perhaps some common mexican dishes. If you asked random people in the street: what american dishes are there? would their answer be different from the above?

helsinkiandrew 6y ago

You're in the minority though - there appears to be 50 billion hamburgers eating in the US every year which is about 150 per person. Meat substitutes are a transitionary item - for those used to eating meat. I've been vegan for 35 years and rarely cook with them (tempeh and tofu are the only things that come close). I get plenty of protein from vegetables, beans etc. and the thought of eating a mock meat just doesn't appeal to me (I'll occasionally eat a burger when out but I find Beyond burgers taste like the burgers sold in cheap fast food joints smell like.

dane-pgp 6y ago
> in the US every year which is about 150 per person. Is the average person in the US really eating 3 hamburgers per week?
- violetgarden 6y ago
  I’m American, and I don’t know anyone who eats this much hamburger. A lot of us find them to be pretty heavy, so it’s more like a meal that you have once in a blue moon. However, someone commented below that it might just be the income bracket we’re in. Poorer people might be consuming more of them because they’re cheap and fast to get.
- helsinkiandrew 6y ago
  Actually, sorry I picked up that number from the internet it's a USDA figure of the equivalent amount of burgers for all the meat consumed in the US (50 Billion) but is quoted by every bad website and news outlet as the number of burgers sold.

ricardobayes 6y ago

No need to go that far, just try replacing cheese. There's surprisingly few Italian food items left.