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I moved to Berlin two years ago and the finding a house was incredibly exhausting. As the article mentions, there are two categories, rent capped apartments and

I moved to Berlin two years ago and the finding a house was incredibly exhausting. As the article mentions, there are two categories, rent capped apartments and non rent capped apartments. For the first category, there are 2000+ applicants per day per apartment, making it impossible to actually have a chance to get the apartment. The odds getting that apartment as a foreigner that do not speak German is non existent, you actually have better odds on playing lottery and winning it, then buying a new apartment. The second category is the overpriced apartments, the "landlords" (mostly the same three evil companies) are asking stupid amounts of rent for small apartments (1100 - 1200 cold rent for 50sqm ??). Those apartments are not accessible to 90% of the population. They are very happy to rent to the foreigners, since they can extract money from them, plus they do not know the local laws, so they can push newbies around. Currently there are two categories of people living in the Berlin as well: The new comers, who are screwed and the old renters who rented for cheap, who landlords can not get rid of. The first category are mostly expats, who are being screwed by landlords who do not want to rent to foreigners (especially if you are not from Europa), so they are pushed to new, non-rent capped apartments, making their lives even harder. The second category is people rented huge apartments for 300 Euro per month 10 years ago, with 2% increases per year, who are not going to move soon. Berlin wants to be the startup capital and an expat center, but it is not going to happen if they allow systematic exclusion* and abuse of expats that are trying to settle in the city. I can go and rant for days but I think this post is already long enough. * I did not want to use "racism" word here but it really feels like it is.

bogomipz 6y ago
>"The second category is the overpriced apartments, the "landlords" (mostly the same three evil companies) are asking stupid amounts of rent for small apartments (1100 - 1200 cold rent for 50sqm ??)." Which companies are these? >"The first category are mostly expats, who are being screwed by landlords who do not want to rent to foreigners (especially if you are not from Europa)," Unless I'm reading this incorrectly doesn't this contradict your earlier statment that they want to rent to expats "since they can extract money from them, plus they do not know the local laws, so they can push newbies around."? I'm curious How did you ultimately end up finding a place?
- dna_polymerase 6y ago
  > Which companies are these? Pretty sure they are talking about Vonovia [0], Degewo [1], Deutsche Wohnen [2]. [0]: https://www.vonovia.de/en https://www.vonovia.de/en [1]: https://www.degewo.de/ https://www.degewo.de/ [2]: https://www.deutsche-wohnen.com/en/ https://www.deutsche-wohnen.com/en/
  - mtrovo 6y ago
    Don't forget Akelius
- csunbird 6y ago
  My first apartment was a limited lease for 6 months (like AirBnB but a private company), which I could terminate within a month if I could find another place. I could not, had to extend it to 2 years (the landlord said it will not be possible to extend beyond 2 years). After the 1.5 years of search, I was able to get not so affordable but acceptable place. 1.5 years to find an apartment, that is not cheap but bordering the acceptable rent. Nobody should suffer this in their lifetimes. I am not going to name the companies and get sued. Stuff like that are serious in Germany.
  - throwaway12903 6y ago
    > 1.5 years to find an apartment, that is not cheap but bordering the acceptable Curious - how far outside of the center of Berlin did your search extend, and what was your parameters for an acceptable place/rent?
    - csunbird 6y ago
      First question: I looked mostly in the center, nothing more than 7 kms away from my workplace. I needed somewhere that I can commute by bike, since the traffic and the fight for parking spaces are too exhausting. S-Bahn is too overcrowded. For your second question, double of the rent cap, two rooms (or maybe 1.5), don't care if the building is old or new. Partly furnished is preferred but I do not mind unfurnished. Please post with your main account if you are going to ask more personal questions.
throwaway12903 6y ago
> it is not going to happen if they allow systematic exclusion* and abuse of expats that are trying to settle in the city. I don't think its deliberate exclusion/racism as you say. When we looked we always found that there were other people more deserving than us. Like a pregnant couple with baby always needs more room more than us. If you are German, speak German, and are going to live here a long time, it makes more sense for landlord. If you don't earn a tech salary you will struggle to find anything within the city, so you are probably more deserving. The tech foreigners usually can pay more, they just see cheaper rents that they can't get because of rent control and feel hard done-by. If Berlin was your city, Germany your country, would you prioritize apartments for the wealthy tech people over the teachers for example?
- csunbird 6y ago
  All that matters should be how likely the person is able to pay the rent and not damage/burn down the apartment/disturb the neighbors. > would you prioritize apartments for the wealthy tech people over the teachers I am not German so I am not sure how to answer that. Logic says someone that earns extremely well, has unlimited working contract and is educated very well is a very good candidate, just as a public worker. But, for some reason, the applications that I have sent in German, even though the company representative (or very rarely the owner) is able to speak English, got 10 times more responses. Go figure.
sowjetthrowaway 6y ago
>as a foreigner that do not speak German Nothing is preventing you from learning Hochdeutsch. It is a simple language. Easier than python, certainly. The problem is not caused by these land lords or real estate owners, but broken USSR era govenrnment planning combined with extremely lazy and corrupt modern government. Berlin had higher population than today in 1938, and the city administration did not have any issues.
u678u 6y ago
> stupid amounts of rent for small apartments (1100 - 1200 cold rent for 50sqm Wow that's cheap, London you'd pay double or triple that.
- refurb 6y ago
  Yeah, that seems like a very affordable rent by US or Canadian standard. A good 1 bed ~50 sqm in a major city (read - jobs) would run close to $2,000 with a few exceptions.
- csunbird 6y ago
  You also earn more in London. The main problem here is the rent increases are always higher than the wage increases in Berlin.
blub 6y ago
Berlin's a big city and I bet most people don't care about start-ups or expats. Don't confuse what some politicians and companies are saying with the broad opinions of the entire population of Berlin. Now that we got the alleged need for expats (which isn't) out of the way, let's address some of the other points: * if you're a foreigner, especially from outside Europe you have less of a shared cultural background with the typical local landlord. Of course they're gonna like someone local more. * if you don't even speak the local language, you're at a disadvantage in almost every imaginable situation in a foreign country. Some people are nice and make an effort to speak English - that's a courtesy, not something that is owed to you. It looks like you were sold some fantasy start-up heaven which doesn't exist. Not everything revolves around software and nomad developers, shocking as that may be.

bogomipz 6y ago

>"The second category is the overpriced apartments, the "landlords" (mostly the same three evil companies) are asking stupid amounts of rent for small apartments (1100 - 1200 cold rent for 50sqm ??)." Which companies are these? >"The first category are mostly expats, who are being screwed by landlords who do not want to rent to foreigners (especially if you are not from Europa)," Unless I'm reading this incorrectly doesn't this contradict your earlier statment that they want to rent to expats "since they can extract money from them, plus they do not know the local laws, so they can push newbies around."? I'm curious How did you ultimately end up finding a place?

dna_polymerase 6y ago
> Which companies are these? Pretty sure they are talking about Vonovia [0], Degewo [1], Deutsche Wohnen [2]. [0]: https://www.vonovia.de/en https://www.vonovia.de/en [1]: https://www.degewo.de/ https://www.degewo.de/ [2]: https://www.deutsche-wohnen.com/en/ https://www.deutsche-wohnen.com/en/
- mtrovo 6y ago
  Don't forget Akelius
csunbird 6y ago
My first apartment was a limited lease for 6 months (like AirBnB but a private company), which I could terminate within a month if I could find another place. I could not, had to extend it to 2 years (the landlord said it will not be possible to extend beyond 2 years). After the 1.5 years of search, I was able to get not so affordable but acceptable place. 1.5 years to find an apartment, that is not cheap but bordering the acceptable rent. Nobody should suffer this in their lifetimes. I am not going to name the companies and get sued. Stuff like that are serious in Germany.
- throwaway12903 6y ago
  > 1.5 years to find an apartment, that is not cheap but bordering the acceptable Curious - how far outside of the center of Berlin did your search extend, and what was your parameters for an acceptable place/rent?
  - csunbird 6y ago
    First question: I looked mostly in the center, nothing more than 7 kms away from my workplace. I needed somewhere that I can commute by bike, since the traffic and the fight for parking spaces are too exhausting. S-Bahn is too overcrowded. For your second question, double of the rent cap, two rooms (or maybe 1.5), don't care if the building is old or new. Partly furnished is preferred but I do not mind unfurnished. Please post with your main account if you are going to ask more personal questions.

throwaway12903 6y ago

> it is not going to happen if they allow systematic exclusion* and abuse of expats that are trying to settle in the city. I don't think its deliberate exclusion/racism as you say. When we looked we always found that there were other people more deserving than us. Like a pregnant couple with baby always needs more room more than us. If you are German, speak German, and are going to live here a long time, it makes more sense for landlord. If you don't earn a tech salary you will struggle to find anything within the city, so you are probably more deserving. The tech foreigners usually can pay more, they just see cheaper rents that they can't get because of rent control and feel hard done-by. If Berlin was your city, Germany your country, would you prioritize apartments for the wealthy tech people over the teachers for example?

csunbird 6y ago
All that matters should be how likely the person is able to pay the rent and not damage/burn down the apartment/disturb the neighbors. > would you prioritize apartments for the wealthy tech people over the teachers I am not German so I am not sure how to answer that. Logic says someone that earns extremely well, has unlimited working contract and is educated very well is a very good candidate, just as a public worker. But, for some reason, the applications that I have sent in German, even though the company representative (or very rarely the owner) is able to speak English, got 10 times more responses. Go figure.

sowjetthrowaway 6y ago

>as a foreigner that do not speak German Nothing is preventing you from learning Hochdeutsch. It is a simple language. Easier than python, certainly. The problem is not caused by these land lords or real estate owners, but broken USSR era govenrnment planning combined with extremely lazy and corrupt modern government. Berlin had higher population than today in 1938, and the city administration did not have any issues.

u678u 6y ago

> stupid amounts of rent for small apartments (1100 - 1200 cold rent for 50sqm Wow that's cheap, London you'd pay double or triple that.

refurb 6y ago
Yeah, that seems like a very affordable rent by US or Canadian standard. A good 1 bed ~50 sqm in a major city (read - jobs) would run close to $2,000 with a few exceptions.
csunbird 6y ago
You also earn more in London. The main problem here is the rent increases are always higher than the wage increases in Berlin.

blub 6y ago

Berlin's a big city and I bet most people don't care about start-ups or expats. Don't confuse what some politicians and companies are saying with the broad opinions of the entire population of Berlin. Now that we got the alleged need for expats (which isn't) out of the way, let's address some of the other points: * if you're a foreigner, especially from outside Europe you have less of a shared cultural background with the typical local landlord. Of course they're gonna like someone local more. * if you don't even speak the local language, you're at a disadvantage in almost every imaginable situation in a foreign country. Some people are nice and make an effort to speak English - that's a courtesy, not something that is owed to you. It looks like you were sold some fantasy start-up heaven which doesn't exist. Not everything revolves around software and nomad developers, shocking as that may be.