5 ms·

and Doordash. how is everything >4? are we really to believe that McDonalds has a rating of 4.6 out of 5? it makes the system completely useless.

ssharp 6y ago
If you order McDonalds, you probably know what McDonalds should taste like. If it meets 100% of your expectations, why would you rate it lower? Similarly, if I get a meal from Michelin Star rated restaurant and it fails to meet my high expectations, should it get a better rating than McDonald's just because the restaurants meal was still likely much better than McDonald's even if it failed to meet expectations?
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  In practical terms it dilutes the value of 4 and 5 star reviews for other restaurants. There's some cognitive dissonance involved when McDonald's gets a 4.6/5 and a mom and pop haute-cuisine restaurant gets a 4.6/5 as well. These are two very different dining experiences but they are being judged using the same system and feels inaccurate.
  - spaetzleesser 6y ago
    For what McDonalds is they probably deliver a 5 star review the way their customers see it. You probably have to divide restaurants into different categories and compare within them. I beat a lot of people will rate MCDonalds higher than haute cuisine restaurants even in direct comparison. There is no absolute rating for restaurants.
    - neltnerb 6y ago
      If in direct comparison they rate McDonald's higher, then that's fine... McDonald's is a huge business, they obviously have people who like them. But it should be a direct comparison, I certainly think KFC is far superior to most haute cuisine fried chicken.
  - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
    There is no sensible way to compare fine dining to McDonald's. The rating should be based on how well they deliver what they purport to deliver. If McDonald's delivers the absolute epitome of a fast-food burger and fries then it should get a 5/5, even if tastier food can be found at other restaurants. Haute cuisine with a mediocre execution should get a 3/5 even if it's tastier than a McDonald's hamburger.
- neltnerb 6y ago
  From a utility standpoint, I mean, yeah. You should definitely rate McDonalds lower than a restaurant with food you liked better, if people want to search for "how was the food" divided by "cost of the food" that's obviously a sliding scale that depends on the person. Maybe it should be something you can sort by, but I don't see how you could possibly reconcile ratings from different people if they all give five stars for any restaurant that meets their expectations.
- account42 6y ago
  Experience vs. expectations is the only reasonable way to interpret user-based scores even if they are not astroturfed. The problem is that you don't always know what the average user's expectations are and how they compare to your own and there is no basis for comparing scores between different objects.
conception 6y ago
This I think stems from a different issue. Doordash has a very easy, one second review they ask from everyone. And I think 99.999% of folks think “oh yeah that was fine, 4 stars” or “it was pretty good, five stars.” Do people get what they expected from that McDonald’s? Was it cheap, fast and nostalgic? 5 stars. The people doing these reviews are not good critics, or critical with any sort of depth. They are the sort of folks that get doordash to bring them McDonald’s.
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  This reminds of me leaving reviews on Uber or Lyft. A perfectly fine ride is a 5/5 because anything less than that hurts the driver. In reality I just need a binary "Satisfactory? Y/N" and then maybe an optional extended rating for leaving feedback if anything was out of the ordinary, good or bad.
- undefined1 6y ago
  good points. maybe that makes all the difference between Doordash compared to Google/Yelp, where McDonalds is more along the lines of 1 or 2 out of 5. it means Doordash ratings are useless for discovery, but if you already know the restaurant, it might have utility in terms of delivery.
- egypturnash 6y ago
  There is also unevenly distributed cultural knowledge: anything less than five stars starts causing hassle for the driver. I hate this inflation but I also wanna make sure the person who gave me competent service that I would realistically mark as three stars - not bad, not great, job done exactly as specified and I'm perfectly happy with that - is going to get five. (hassle varies: offered fewer/worse-paying jobs is a good start)
  - neltnerb 6y ago
    When I moved to California for a while I once made the mistake of describing my food at a restaurant with "fine, thanks" when the server asked how it was. Apparently this translates very differently in the culture of the Bay Area where it means something like "I am very upset" whereas in Boston I think this roughly would be read as "I am satisfied, but don't really feel like chatting."
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
They can both be 5/5 in terms of delivering the product you expect them to deliver.
notahacker 6y ago
Isn't this just the logical consequence of the "less than 5 stars means you want them punished" mentality popularised by Uber?
- ghaff 6y ago
  It was popularized at least as far back as eBay (albeit as a positive/neutral/negative scale). "Seller shipped me an empty box but at least there wasn't dynamite in it. A+++++++ seller." I do think restaurant and product ratings are a bit different. With Uber, eBay, etc., a lot of people recognize that any less than perfect rating can lead to a personal impact on someone even if a small number of people leave a negative. That said, many will leave good marks on satisfaction surveys because a middling mark may lead to someone reaching out to find out what the problem was and that can just be more hassle than it's worth.
  - notahacker 6y ago
    Arguably the punishment side existed before the web then in US tipping etiquette. But at least the eBay 'approve' asks you whether the vendor was adequate or not, not to give them the maximum on an entirely artificial multiplier scale unless you think they should face consequences.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      >Arguably the punishment side existed before the web then in US tipping etiquette. True. In general, even if service is bad for whatever reason, most people would say you should leave a tip even if a less generous one than you normally would. I haven't left a rating on eBay for a long time and don't use it much. But for many situations there's something to be said for thumbs up/down or an up/neutral/down rating when you're not really trying to fine tune.
- walshemj 6y ago
  And I suspect the use of grades in US Highschools where anything that isnt an A is considered a failure is an element why every ones gives a 4 or 5
RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
> are we really to believe that McDonalds has a rating of 4.6 out of 5? Why shouldn’t it? You know what you are getting with McDonalds. For the price point they sell at, it is pretty good food. They are consistent. And they do a really good job with food safety, probably better than a lot of more highly rated restaurants (when was the last time you heard about an outbreak of a food borne illness at McDonalds)?
- ghaff 6y ago
  I very rarely eat at McDonalds because I don't like them for the most part. But, if I did, and I was promptly served what I ordered, why would I ding them because their burger isn't up to the standards of the (costlier) burger joint down the street or even Shake Shack.

ssharp 6y ago

If you order McDonalds, you probably know what McDonalds should taste like. If it meets 100% of your expectations, why would you rate it lower? Similarly, if I get a meal from Michelin Star rated restaurant and it fails to meet my high expectations, should it get a better rating than McDonald's just because the restaurants meal was still likely much better than McDonald's even if it failed to meet expectations?

BitwiseFool 6y ago
In practical terms it dilutes the value of 4 and 5 star reviews for other restaurants. There's some cognitive dissonance involved when McDonald's gets a 4.6/5 and a mom and pop haute-cuisine restaurant gets a 4.6/5 as well. These are two very different dining experiences but they are being judged using the same system and feels inaccurate.
- spaetzleesser 6y ago
  For what McDonalds is they probably deliver a 5 star review the way their customers see it. You probably have to divide restaurants into different categories and compare within them. I beat a lot of people will rate MCDonalds higher than haute cuisine restaurants even in direct comparison. There is no absolute rating for restaurants.
  - neltnerb 6y ago
    If in direct comparison they rate McDonald's higher, then that's fine... McDonald's is a huge business, they obviously have people who like them. But it should be a direct comparison, I certainly think KFC is far superior to most haute cuisine fried chicken.
- TheCoelacanth 6y ago
  There is no sensible way to compare fine dining to McDonald's. The rating should be based on how well they deliver what they purport to deliver. If McDonald's delivers the absolute epitome of a fast-food burger and fries then it should get a 5/5, even if tastier food can be found at other restaurants. Haute cuisine with a mediocre execution should get a 3/5 even if it's tastier than a McDonald's hamburger.
neltnerb 6y ago
From a utility standpoint, I mean, yeah. You should definitely rate McDonalds lower than a restaurant with food you liked better, if people want to search for "how was the food" divided by "cost of the food" that's obviously a sliding scale that depends on the person. Maybe it should be something you can sort by, but I don't see how you could possibly reconcile ratings from different people if they all give five stars for any restaurant that meets their expectations.
account42 6y ago
Experience vs. expectations is the only reasonable way to interpret user-based scores even if they are not astroturfed. The problem is that you don't always know what the average user's expectations are and how they compare to your own and there is no basis for comparing scores between different objects.

conception 6y ago

This I think stems from a different issue. Doordash has a very easy, one second review they ask from everyone. And I think 99.999% of folks think “oh yeah that was fine, 4 stars” or “it was pretty good, five stars.” Do people get what they expected from that McDonald’s? Was it cheap, fast and nostalgic? 5 stars. The people doing these reviews are not good critics, or critical with any sort of depth. They are the sort of folks that get doordash to bring them McDonald’s.

BitwiseFool 6y ago
This reminds of me leaving reviews on Uber or Lyft. A perfectly fine ride is a 5/5 because anything less than that hurts the driver. In reality I just need a binary "Satisfactory? Y/N" and then maybe an optional extended rating for leaving feedback if anything was out of the ordinary, good or bad.
undefined1 6y ago
good points. maybe that makes all the difference between Doordash compared to Google/Yelp, where McDonalds is more along the lines of 1 or 2 out of 5. it means Doordash ratings are useless for discovery, but if you already know the restaurant, it might have utility in terms of delivery.
egypturnash 6y ago
There is also unevenly distributed cultural knowledge: anything less than five stars starts causing hassle for the driver. I hate this inflation but I also wanna make sure the person who gave me competent service that I would realistically mark as three stars - not bad, not great, job done exactly as specified and I'm perfectly happy with that - is going to get five. (hassle varies: offered fewer/worse-paying jobs is a good start)
- neltnerb 6y ago
  When I moved to California for a while I once made the mistake of describing my food at a restaurant with "fine, thanks" when the server asked how it was. Apparently this translates very differently in the culture of the Bay Area where it means something like "I am very upset" whereas in Boston I think this roughly would be read as "I am satisfied, but don't really feel like chatting."

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

They can both be 5/5 in terms of delivering the product you expect them to deliver.

notahacker 6y ago

Isn't this just the logical consequence of the "less than 5 stars means you want them punished" mentality popularised by Uber?

ghaff 6y ago
It was popularized at least as far back as eBay (albeit as a positive/neutral/negative scale). "Seller shipped me an empty box but at least there wasn't dynamite in it. A+++++++ seller." I do think restaurant and product ratings are a bit different. With Uber, eBay, etc., a lot of people recognize that any less than perfect rating can lead to a personal impact on someone even if a small number of people leave a negative. That said, many will leave good marks on satisfaction surveys because a middling mark may lead to someone reaching out to find out what the problem was and that can just be more hassle than it's worth.
- notahacker 6y ago
  Arguably the punishment side existed before the web then in US tipping etiquette. But at least the eBay 'approve' asks you whether the vendor was adequate or not, not to give them the maximum on an entirely artificial multiplier scale unless you think they should face consequences.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    >Arguably the punishment side existed before the web then in US tipping etiquette. True. In general, even if service is bad for whatever reason, most people would say you should leave a tip even if a less generous one than you normally would. I haven't left a rating on eBay for a long time and don't use it much. But for many situations there's something to be said for thumbs up/down or an up/neutral/down rating when you're not really trying to fine tune.
walshemj 6y ago
And I suspect the use of grades in US Highschools where anything that isnt an A is considered a failure is an element why every ones gives a 4 or 5

RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago

> are we really to believe that McDonalds has a rating of 4.6 out of 5? Why shouldn’t it? You know what you are getting with McDonalds. For the price point they sell at, it is pretty good food. They are consistent. And they do a really good job with food safety, probably better than a lot of more highly rated restaurants (when was the last time you heard about an outbreak of a food borne illness at McDonalds)?

ghaff 6y ago
I very rarely eat at McDonalds because I don't like them for the most part. But, if I did, and I was promptly served what I ordered, why would I ding them because their burger isn't up to the standards of the (costlier) burger joint down the street or even Shake Shack.