6 ms·

As well they should. This is a game of cat and mouse. Consumers were ahead for a little while, but companies have really gotten a grasp on the internet, and th

As well they should. This is a game of cat and mouse. Consumers were ahead for a little while, but companies have really gotten a grasp on the internet, and they're winning the information war. It's no mistake that I've come to rely on brand name again. It's the best heuristic available to me. When all this first started (mid-2000s) I was actively avoiding basing ANY decision on brand name. For a brief window, I had better information, but no more.

sharkweek 6y ago
I used to trust Amazon for just about anything I needed to buy, but I'd guess maybe in the last 6-8 years I'll mostly only order something if I recognize the brand name selling me the product. Tried to buy a pair of cheap-ish bluetooth headphones off there a few months ago. Three different pairs and none of them even worked out of the box. Gave up and bought a more expensive pair from a known brand.
- depingus 6y ago
  You can't trust ANYTHING on Amazon; including name brand. They co-mingle their legit inventory with counterfeit 3rd party inventory. When you order something, even if it's "Sold and Shipped from Amazon", they ship you the closest product. You may very well end up getting the fake 3rd party item.
  - everybodyknows 6y ago
    Also ship damaged, repackaged goods as “new”, e.g. monitor with scratched screen. Solution: Order monitor from Staples, insist employee open box for inspection. Cost an extra $20 over Amazon — bargain!
  - cout 6y ago
    If it's Amazon brand (e.g. Kindle), I'd be surprised to get a counterfeit. I also trust less popular brands to not be counterfeit, though I expect that to change in the future.
- AJ007 6y ago
  My experience ordering from Shopify sites over the past or two: the checkout is now faster and easier than Amazon. Overall Amazon's failings are good for everyone else involved in e-commerce. The bottlenecks to purchasing online 20 years ago are far behind us now. If your business is selling low margin items at massive scale then Amazon probably continues to win (in the US.)
- daniel-cussen 6y ago
  What I noticed about Amazon is they do make it obvious something is a counterfeit, but only after the fact. Up until you buy it it looks legit and they make it hard to tell it's not, but after it's gotten to you they know you know and they want you to think it was your fault for falling for an obviously fake listing. That's when they display the real listing, to make you feel stupid.
fearling 6y ago
> It's no mistake that I've come to rely on brand name again. Big +1 here. Brand name is a core part of my decision making process at this point. Otherwise, I'm relying on word of mouth. Occasionally, I'll use some of the more "reliable" independent review services.
- tjs8rj 6y ago
  This has been mentioned before but I’ve done this for a while: searching “[product] reddit” often does the trick when looking for candid reviews. Normal people with nothing to gain except internet points (which just incentivizes them to give the popular consensus or fantastic failure of the product).
  - mumblemumble 6y ago
    Though, I would still go stalk the reviewer a bit and make sure they're a real person. Reddit isn't necessarily any less amenable to astroturfing than amazon.com or bestbuy.com; the only thing that might be protecting it right now is that it's currently not as big a pot of honey.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  Sadly, brand names are also caught up in this bullshit. I've had purchases (electronics, household appliances, clothing, food, ...) from long-trusted brands, direct from manufacturer or established retailer, turn to shit. Some have stood behind their products. Others ... have not. Samsung especially is on my shitlist. Take Google and Amazon as two other examples.
jedberg 6y ago
This is true in the real world again (still?) too. We're currently stocking up on disinfecting wipes to donate to the school when they open next month. We've been told that the teachers only want brand name Clorox wipes, because they don't trust any other brand to actually disinfect safely.
- neartheplain 6y ago
  Unfortunately, even this approach isn’t foolproof. Fake brand-name products make it into supply chains all the time, especially on sites like Amazon via third-party sellers. In China for example, “fake alcohol” (where brand-name bottles are refilled with cheaper, sometimes dangerous off-brand liquors) has been a big problem: https://www.mersolluo.com/china-cracking-down-on-counterfeit-alcohol/ https://www.mersolluo.com/china-cracking-down-on-counterfeit... I can’t imagine that the rubbing alcohol wipe industry is that much more resistant to counterfeiting. (Edit: It’s not- https://wjla.com/features/7-on-your-side/scammers-promise-clorox-and-lysol-consumers-get-taken-to-the-cleaners https://wjla.com/features/7-on-your-side/scammers-promise-cl...)
  - jedberg 6y ago
    Yeah that is true. I'm hoping Costco has their supply chain down well enough that it's not an issue, but at least there is a slightly higher chance it's legit if it says Clorox on the side.
    - bombcar 6y ago
      Yeah, we've gone back to having to trust the brand name of the distributor - if it says it came from Amazon it is basically assumed to be counterfeit chinese crap; Costco and Home Depot (and even Walmart in store) are a bit more secure there.
      - depingus 6y ago
        Does Walmart (online) co-mingle their inventory with third party inventory like Amazon?
tobib 6y ago
And then there are fakes of brand name products which makes it difficult to even know what you're buying. Personally I started buying things that I used to buy at Amazon locally instead whenever and wherever possible. That might mean a trip to the store but better than not knowing what you get.
AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
> It's no mistake that I've come to rely on brand name again. I've been saying for awhile, this could be the salvation for brick-and-mortar stores. As long as Amazon continues to play fast and loose with counterfeits, the one thing that will get me to drive down to the store and buy something in-person is the store's guarantee that the product came from the vendor whose name is on the box, and that I can return it if I get a lemon.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  That and in-person testing of equipment. When (pre-pandemic) I was buying a new set of headphones, I was able to go through different options, test out how they feel, and whether there are any significant sound quality issues. I prefer over-the-ear headphones, but have bigger ears, so it is hard to tell whether a set will be comfortable without trying them on first. To do the same with an online store would require ordering a dozen headsets, then navigating the return policies for all but one of them.
spoonjim 6y ago
There are also retailers which actually vet brands. For example anything edible that Target or Walmart or Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods (Amazon ownership notwithstanding) sells in their stores, they actually contract a testing company to test it to make sure that it’s safe. For things where safety is important an actual physical national store is going to be much better than Amazon.
- TheCoelacanth 6y ago
  That's still relying on brand name, just the brand of the retailer instead of the brand of the manufacturer.
  - spoonjim 6y ago
    Yes — but one retailer can aggregate hundreds of manufacturers. So if you buy everything at Target, for example, you know they have done a basic-level quality filter for you: the brands are not counterfeit, the food is tested occasionally, the electronics are UL listed.
Shivetya 6y ago
Oh my, I am at the point I only read the 1 star reviews and maybe 2 star reviews. Worse dealing with Amazon is a royal pain when the company fulfilling the order ships the wrong item. Brand names are a fine method to follow but not when sellers ship the wrong model/version/etc.
- HomeDeLaPot 6y ago
  But all the 1 star reviews are from competitors!
rsj_hn 6y ago
Why not look at consumer reports (https://www.consumerreports.org/ https://www.consumerreports.org/)? I purchased a subscription and use them quite a bit. The problem here is in willingness to pay. If companies are willing to pay to promote their product, you will need to pay to get objective information. Any attempts at free objective information is going to be vulnerable to pollution by those willing to spend resources.
- jimhefferon 6y ago
  I find that they engage in many practices they decry in others. It is at best not clear that they are on the good folks side.
- everdrive 6y ago
  I find that their ratings are often not very meaningful, at least for products that I feel informed. They don't seem very objective, and instead feel like a testimonial from a certain kind of person. If you happen to have similar sensibilities, then their ratings may work out quite well for you. I've never had that experience with them, though.
  - rsj_hn 6y ago
    Then you will need to find a group that shares your tastes, but the consumer reports approach (if not their specific tastes) is the long term solution, IMO.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  What are your (or others') impressions of the usefulness of CR's ratings from a durability / longevity standpoint? It's easy to create a product that will score well in a 1-day, or even 1-month trial. It's harder to make (or assess) one over a multi-year lifespan. I've long felt CR falls flat on this mark, though it's a difficult one to make. I'm not sure who else even plays in the space. J.D. Power comes to mind.

sharkweek 6y ago

I used to trust Amazon for just about anything I needed to buy, but I'd guess maybe in the last 6-8 years I'll mostly only order something if I recognize the brand name selling me the product. Tried to buy a pair of cheap-ish bluetooth headphones off there a few months ago. Three different pairs and none of them even worked out of the box. Gave up and bought a more expensive pair from a known brand.

depingus 6y ago
You can't trust ANYTHING on Amazon; including name brand. They co-mingle their legit inventory with counterfeit 3rd party inventory. When you order something, even if it's "Sold and Shipped from Amazon", they ship you the closest product. You may very well end up getting the fake 3rd party item.
- everybodyknows 6y ago
  Also ship damaged, repackaged goods as “new”, e.g. monitor with scratched screen. Solution: Order monitor from Staples, insist employee open box for inspection. Cost an extra $20 over Amazon — bargain!
- cout 6y ago
  If it's Amazon brand (e.g. Kindle), I'd be surprised to get a counterfeit. I also trust less popular brands to not be counterfeit, though I expect that to change in the future.
AJ007 6y ago
My experience ordering from Shopify sites over the past or two: the checkout is now faster and easier than Amazon. Overall Amazon's failings are good for everyone else involved in e-commerce. The bottlenecks to purchasing online 20 years ago are far behind us now. If your business is selling low margin items at massive scale then Amazon probably continues to win (in the US.)
daniel-cussen 6y ago
What I noticed about Amazon is they do make it obvious something is a counterfeit, but only after the fact. Up until you buy it it looks legit and they make it hard to tell it's not, but after it's gotten to you they know you know and they want you to think it was your fault for falling for an obviously fake listing. That's when they display the real listing, to make you feel stupid.

fearling 6y ago

> It's no mistake that I've come to rely on brand name again. Big +1 here. Brand name is a core part of my decision making process at this point. Otherwise, I'm relying on word of mouth. Occasionally, I'll use some of the more "reliable" independent review services.

tjs8rj 6y ago
This has been mentioned before but I’ve done this for a while: searching “[product] reddit” often does the trick when looking for candid reviews. Normal people with nothing to gain except internet points (which just incentivizes them to give the popular consensus or fantastic failure of the product).
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  Though, I would still go stalk the reviewer a bit and make sure they're a real person. Reddit isn't necessarily any less amenable to astroturfing than amazon.com or bestbuy.com; the only thing that might be protecting it right now is that it's currently not as big a pot of honey.
dredmorbius 6y ago
Sadly, brand names are also caught up in this bullshit. I've had purchases (electronics, household appliances, clothing, food, ...) from long-trusted brands, direct from manufacturer or established retailer, turn to shit. Some have stood behind their products. Others ... have not. Samsung especially is on my shitlist. Take Google and Amazon as two other examples.

jedberg 6y ago

This is true in the real world again (still?) too. We're currently stocking up on disinfecting wipes to donate to the school when they open next month. We've been told that the teachers only want brand name Clorox wipes, because they don't trust any other brand to actually disinfect safely.

neartheplain 6y ago
Unfortunately, even this approach isn’t foolproof. Fake brand-name products make it into supply chains all the time, especially on sites like Amazon via third-party sellers. In China for example, “fake alcohol” (where brand-name bottles are refilled with cheaper, sometimes dangerous off-brand liquors) has been a big problem: https://www.mersolluo.com/china-cracking-down-on-counterfeit-alcohol/ https://www.mersolluo.com/china-cracking-down-on-counterfeit... I can’t imagine that the rubbing alcohol wipe industry is that much more resistant to counterfeiting. (Edit: It’s not- https://wjla.com/features/7-on-your-side/scammers-promise-clorox-and-lysol-consumers-get-taken-to-the-cleaners https://wjla.com/features/7-on-your-side/scammers-promise-cl...)
- jedberg 6y ago
  Yeah that is true. I'm hoping Costco has their supply chain down well enough that it's not an issue, but at least there is a slightly higher chance it's legit if it says Clorox on the side.
  - bombcar 6y ago
    Yeah, we've gone back to having to trust the brand name of the distributor - if it says it came from Amazon it is basically assumed to be counterfeit chinese crap; Costco and Home Depot (and even Walmart in store) are a bit more secure there.
    - depingus 6y ago
      Does Walmart (online) co-mingle their inventory with third party inventory like Amazon?

tobib 6y ago

And then there are fakes of brand name products which makes it difficult to even know what you're buying. Personally I started buying things that I used to buy at Amazon locally instead whenever and wherever possible. That might mean a trip to the store but better than not knowing what you get.

AdmiralAsshat 6y ago

> It's no mistake that I've come to rely on brand name again. I've been saying for awhile, this could be the salvation for brick-and-mortar stores. As long as Amazon continues to play fast and loose with counterfeits, the one thing that will get me to drive down to the store and buy something in-person is the store's guarantee that the product came from the vendor whose name is on the box, and that I can return it if I get a lemon.

MereInterest 6y ago
That and in-person testing of equipment. When (pre-pandemic) I was buying a new set of headphones, I was able to go through different options, test out how they feel, and whether there are any significant sound quality issues. I prefer over-the-ear headphones, but have bigger ears, so it is hard to tell whether a set will be comfortable without trying them on first. To do the same with an online store would require ordering a dozen headsets, then navigating the return policies for all but one of them.

spoonjim 6y ago

There are also retailers which actually vet brands. For example anything edible that Target or Walmart or Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods (Amazon ownership notwithstanding) sells in their stores, they actually contract a testing company to test it to make sure that it’s safe. For things where safety is important an actual physical national store is going to be much better than Amazon.

TheCoelacanth 6y ago
That's still relying on brand name, just the brand of the retailer instead of the brand of the manufacturer.
- spoonjim 6y ago
  Yes — but one retailer can aggregate hundreds of manufacturers. So if you buy everything at Target, for example, you know they have done a basic-level quality filter for you: the brands are not counterfeit, the food is tested occasionally, the electronics are UL listed.

Shivetya 6y ago

Oh my, I am at the point I only read the 1 star reviews and maybe 2 star reviews. Worse dealing with Amazon is a royal pain when the company fulfilling the order ships the wrong item. Brand names are a fine method to follow but not when sellers ship the wrong model/version/etc.

HomeDeLaPot 6y ago
But all the 1 star reviews are from competitors!

rsj_hn 6y ago

Why not look at consumer reports (https://www.consumerreports.org/ https://www.consumerreports.org/)? I purchased a subscription and use them quite a bit. The problem here is in willingness to pay. If companies are willing to pay to promote their product, you will need to pay to get objective information. Any attempts at free objective information is going to be vulnerable to pollution by those willing to spend resources.

jimhefferon 6y ago
I find that they engage in many practices they decry in others. It is at best not clear that they are on the good folks side.
everdrive 6y ago
I find that their ratings are often not very meaningful, at least for products that I feel informed. They don't seem very objective, and instead feel like a testimonial from a certain kind of person. If you happen to have similar sensibilities, then their ratings may work out quite well for you. I've never had that experience with them, though.
- rsj_hn 6y ago
  Then you will need to find a group that shares your tastes, but the consumer reports approach (if not their specific tastes) is the long term solution, IMO.
dredmorbius 6y ago
What are your (or others') impressions of the usefulness of CR's ratings from a durability / longevity standpoint? It's easy to create a product that will score well in a 1-day, or even 1-month trial. It's harder to make (or assess) one over a multi-year lifespan. I've long felt CR falls flat on this mark, though it's a difficult one to make. I'm not sure who else even plays in the space. J.D. Power comes to mind.