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I have one large concern with this. It's not a FLOSS service, it's SSaaS. Let me explain. While Matrix is open-source, Element Matrix hosting gives you no opti

I have one large concern with this. It's not a FLOSS service, it's SSaaS. Let me explain. While Matrix is open-source, Element Matrix hosting gives you no option to modify the source code, not letting you install add-ons or modifications. There's no way to say, "Hey, check out this cool chat patch, just install it on your homeserver!" With proprietary service, if you want a feature, all you can do is say, "Ugh, I wish they would add it." With a freedom-respecting service, you could just hire someone to add it. Therefore, EMS is not a freedom-respecting service. It's as freedom-respecting as proprietary ElasticSearch. The headline explains that it violates the most fundamental principle of free software: - The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0). It does not even attempt to give you this freedom: - The freedom to... change the program so it does your computing as you wish. OSS that's not FLOSS doesn't have any of the ethical benefits: A locked-down Android phone is "open-source" but not free software, as you can't modify it. There should be a way to be able to upload patches onto your server. If corruption ensues, Element Matrix Services should not be held responsible. Let users be responsible for their software! Stop treating them like babies. It also generally makes it much harder for open-source contributors to experiment, as you must go through a centralized repo to gain adoption.

miloignis 6y ago
It's a SaaS offering hosting for FOSS. If you want to be able to patch and change and manage the running homeserver, than you're just manually managing the homeserver, which would be self-hosting! Which is a great thing to do, but then there's no point in buying this service, just rent a VPS. The entire point of this service is that they do the management for you - if you would rather do the management yourself, you totally can. People running their own homeserver are very much first-class citizens on the Matrix network, and managing it yourself is cheaper. The extra expense here is entirely to get them to manage it for you, which seems to be the opposite of what you want.
- crazypython 6y ago
  > The entire point of this service is that they do the management for you - if you would rather do the management yourself, you totally can. I want them to manage it and also let me upload patches. I want the setup, DNS, storage, hosting, all the sysadmin stuff... and still be able to patch the software. I want them to be able to `git pull` an update over my patches, and have it carry forward after updates. I want the agency of FOSS but still pay for the management, simply put. > It's a SaaS offering hosting for FOSS. I can't modify the software, so it's not free software. If they provided some sort of "patch app store" or patch download, it would be free software.
  - miloignis 6y ago
    Interesting - do you know of any service that does this? I'm curious as to how exactly you want it to work. Rereading your comment, I agree DNS and backups make sense, but upgrading the application itself still seems somewhat fraught. If your patch doesn't apply on an update, what should happen? Don't upgrade and send you an email? Do they upgrade the rest of the system it runs on? Do you want to be able to run other programs on the server as well, and if so, how would distro updates work? I think we disagree pretty fundamentally, but you've got me curious now about how your idea would work, and I'd like to hear more.
    - crazypython 6y ago
      > If your patch doesn't apply on an update, what should happen? Don't upgrade and send you an email? Get a new version of the patch for that new version from the patch author, which is included in patch metadata.
  - Arathorn 6y ago
    As amusing as it'd be to let people patch their synapses with buggy/vulnerable code and wreak havoc in our datacenter, we're not going to. If you want to run a custom server, run it yourself.
    - crazypython 6y ago
      > As amusing as it'd be to let people patch their synapses with buggy/vulnerable code and wreak havoc in our datacenter, we're not going to. Each Matrix instance is isolated and "dedicated", so one can only wreak havoc on their own instance. Just provide backups and revert when people mess up.

miloignis 6y ago

It's a SaaS offering hosting for FOSS. If you want to be able to patch and change and manage the running homeserver, than you're just manually managing the homeserver, which would be self-hosting! Which is a great thing to do, but then there's no point in buying this service, just rent a VPS. The entire point of this service is that they do the management for you - if you would rather do the management yourself, you totally can. People running their own homeserver are very much first-class citizens on the Matrix network, and managing it yourself is cheaper. The extra expense here is entirely to get them to manage it for you, which seems to be the opposite of what you want.

crazypython 6y ago
> The entire point of this service is that they do the management for you - if you would rather do the management yourself, you totally can. I want them to manage it and also let me upload patches. I want the setup, DNS, storage, hosting, all the sysadmin stuff... and still be able to patch the software. I want them to be able to `git pull` an update over my patches, and have it carry forward after updates. I want the agency of FOSS but still pay for the management, simply put. > It's a SaaS offering hosting for FOSS. I can't modify the software, so it's not free software. If they provided some sort of "patch app store" or patch download, it would be free software.
- miloignis 6y ago
  Interesting - do you know of any service that does this? I'm curious as to how exactly you want it to work. Rereading your comment, I agree DNS and backups make sense, but upgrading the application itself still seems somewhat fraught. If your patch doesn't apply on an update, what should happen? Don't upgrade and send you an email? Do they upgrade the rest of the system it runs on? Do you want to be able to run other programs on the server as well, and if so, how would distro updates work? I think we disagree pretty fundamentally, but you've got me curious now about how your idea would work, and I'd like to hear more.
  - crazypython 6y ago
    > If your patch doesn't apply on an update, what should happen? Don't upgrade and send you an email? Get a new version of the patch for that new version from the patch author, which is included in patch metadata.
- Arathorn 6y ago
  As amusing as it'd be to let people patch their synapses with buggy/vulnerable code and wreak havoc in our datacenter, we're not going to. If you want to run a custom server, run it yourself.
  - crazypython 6y ago
    > As amusing as it'd be to let people patch their synapses with buggy/vulnerable code and wreak havoc in our datacenter, we're not going to. Each Matrix instance is isolated and "dedicated", so one can only wreak havoc on their own instance. Just provide backups and revert when people mess up.