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Claims about electoral fraud are a regular occurrence in American politics. Democrats made similar claims about at least the 2000, 2004, and 2016 elections. T

by throwaway19937 6y ago

Claims about electoral fraud are a regular occurrence in American politics. Democrats made similar claims about at least the 2000, 2004, and 2016 elections. Trump's claims about election fraud and the sheer number of lawsuits are an escalation but it isn't a difference in kind. Edited to add the following. The child post correctly points out that I should have mentioned Trump's inciting a violent attempt to overthrow the government. This wasn't a deliberate omission.

cycrutchfield 6y ago
How about inciting his supporters to attempt to halt the transition of power? It seems like you conveniently forgot about that while drawing your false equivalence.
- throwaway19937 6y ago
  That's just Hanlon's razor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor) in action. I have edited my post to correct this omission.
tigershark 6y ago
No, stop spreading misinformation. I never saw in my life before Trump an American president that refused to concede and that pushed an angry mob armed with guns, handmade bombs and restraints to invade the Capitol to try to kidnap and kill the politicians, with the Vice President being the first target.
relaxing 6y ago
What were the fraud claims of 2004 and 2016? 2000 was a unique case, and both sides were upset with the process (rightfully so.) On the left I see claims of disenfranchisement done through legal means, which whether you agree with or not is at least something real and concrete.
- throwaway19937 6y ago
  The 2000 election was a mess. (https://www.law.gmu.edu/assets/files/publications/working_papers/01-17.pdf https://www.law.gmu.edu/assets/files/publications/working_pa...) makes what I consider a credible argument that Gore was in the wrong. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_election_voting_controversies#Specific_issues_concerning_the_voting_process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_election_vo...) has a pretty good summary of the issues. The voting machine claims were a big deal at the time; I remember a lot of news coverage about that the voting machine companies were owned by Republicans. I think the 2016 fraud claims were about Russian hacking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election#Russian_involvement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidentia...). (https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/09/11/many-democrats-think-that-the-2016-election-result-was-rigged/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/09/11/many-democrats-...) claims that many Democrats questioned the 2016 election. > On the left I see claims of disenfranchisement done through legal means, which whether you agree with or not is at least something real and concrete. I agree that disenfranchisement is an issue and am in favor of federal voting standards and protecting the voting rights of convicted felons.
  - relaxing 6y ago
    I remember 2004 well, and the concerns around electronic voting machines. But there were no allegations of impropriety once the count took place. The rest of that Wikipedia article is the usual list of enfranchisement issues. I haven’t seen anyone claiming Russian hacking changed the vote tallies of 2016. I remember the hacking “questions” being quite clear that the results of the election were not in question.

cycrutchfield 6y ago

How about inciting his supporters to attempt to halt the transition of power? It seems like you conveniently forgot about that while drawing your false equivalence.

throwaway19937 6y ago
That's just Hanlon's razor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor) in action. I have edited my post to correct this omission.

tigershark 6y ago

No, stop spreading misinformation. I never saw in my life before Trump an American president that refused to concede and that pushed an angry mob armed with guns, handmade bombs and restraints to invade the Capitol to try to kidnap and kill the politicians, with the Vice President being the first target.

relaxing 6y ago

What were the fraud claims of 2004 and 2016? 2000 was a unique case, and both sides were upset with the process (rightfully so.) On the left I see claims of disenfranchisement done through legal means, which whether you agree with or not is at least something real and concrete.

throwaway19937 6y ago
The 2000 election was a mess. (https://www.law.gmu.edu/assets/files/publications/working_papers/01-17.pdf https://www.law.gmu.edu/assets/files/publications/working_pa...) makes what I consider a credible argument that Gore was in the wrong. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_election_voting_controversies#Specific_issues_concerning_the_voting_process https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_election_vo...) has a pretty good summary of the issues. The voting machine claims were a big deal at the time; I remember a lot of news coverage about that the voting machine companies were owned by Republicans. I think the 2016 fraud claims were about Russian hacking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election#Russian_involvement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidentia...). (https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/09/11/many-democrats-think-that-the-2016-election-result-was-rigged/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/09/11/many-democrats-...) claims that many Democrats questioned the 2016 election. > On the left I see claims of disenfranchisement done through legal means, which whether you agree with or not is at least something real and concrete. I agree that disenfranchisement is an issue and am in favor of federal voting standards and protecting the voting rights of convicted felons.
- relaxing 6y ago
  I remember 2004 well, and the concerns around electronic voting machines. But there were no allegations of impropriety once the count took place. The rest of that Wikipedia article is the usual list of enfranchisement issues. I haven’t seen anyone claiming Russian hacking changed the vote tallies of 2016. I remember the hacking “questions” being quite clear that the results of the election were not in question.