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I disagree that Democrats are center-right. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Bernie Sanders are definitely left wing, even for European standards. But you might be

I disagree that Democrats are center-right. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Bernie Sanders are definitely left wing, even for European standards. But you might be partly right. One of the reasons for that are rules of political marketing (rarely politicians have enough courage to ignore them). One of those rules says that you need to differ and polarization is good. You want to win? Show how different you are. Another rule is that people don't vote with their brains but with emotions. So stirring emotions is needed. Humiliating your opponent is a good recipe for high emotions. Social platforms are magnifying differences, emotions, so there is no much more left. As a result democracy is not in the greatest shape now, some would even argue that it resembles more democracy of Roman Empire from triumvirate times (it was only a facade for the mob that was manipulated by those with power) than system that John Stuart Mill or Alexis de Tocqueville had in their minds.

TulliusCicero 6y ago
No, most of the stuff Bernie and AOC advocate for are considered fairly centrist policies in western Europe. Universal healthcare coverage? Paid parental leave? These are the norm in western Europe, they're not radical in the least.
- folknor 6y ago
  In my country, the party (and we have representatives from ~20 parties that are in nationally significant seats of power, 9 parties in the national assembly) that is considered the most "right-wing" actually supports _expanding_ the universal healthcare (EDIT: specifically, they want it to include dentistry, which we currently pay for except for in rare circumstances.) It's not a centrist policy at all - the parties (I think there are two, one of which is probably the Libertarian party) that don't support it here don't hold _any_ elected seats on any level. Not even a single city council seat in a backwater town in the middle of nowhere. So yeah, this is the norm. I'm not saying this to argue, I'm saying it to reinforce you (hopefully that's obvious) :-)
  - TulliusCicero 6y ago
    Yeah, instead of 'centrist' I probably should've said 'mainstream'.
ModernMech 6y ago
AOC and Bernie are picking a $15 minimum wage as the hill they are willing to die on at the moment. Changing the minimum wage from one insufficient value to another slightly larger yet still insufficient value isn't exactly what the left has in mind when they talk about controlling the means of production.
relaxing 6y ago
The rest the Democrats are far to the right of Bernie, AOC et al. The left will tell you the mainstream Democratic party is working to minimize the impact of the left wing, and succeeding (see recent failures to enact progressive policy on minimum wage and immigration.)
soundnote 6y ago
de Tocqueville brought this to mind: "Tyranny in democratic republics does not proceed in the same way, however. It ignores the body and goes straight for the soul. The master no longer says: You will think as I do or die. He says: You are free not to think as I do. You may keep your life, your property, and everything else. But from this day forth you shall be as a stranger among us. You will retain your civic privileges, but they will be of no use to you. For if you seek the votes of your fellow citizens, they will withhold them, and if you seek only their esteem, they will feign to refuse even that. You will remain among men, but you will forfeit your rights to humanity. When you approach your fellow creatures, they will shun you as one who is impure. And even those who believe in your innocence will abandon you, lest they, too, be shunned in turn. Go in peace, I will not take your life, but the life I leave you with is worse than death."

TulliusCicero 6y ago

No, most of the stuff Bernie and AOC advocate for are considered fairly centrist policies in western Europe. Universal healthcare coverage? Paid parental leave? These are the norm in western Europe, they're not radical in the least.

folknor 6y ago
In my country, the party (and we have representatives from ~20 parties that are in nationally significant seats of power, 9 parties in the national assembly) that is considered the most "right-wing" actually supports _expanding_ the universal healthcare (EDIT: specifically, they want it to include dentistry, which we currently pay for except for in rare circumstances.) It's not a centrist policy at all - the parties (I think there are two, one of which is probably the Libertarian party) that don't support it here don't hold _any_ elected seats on any level. Not even a single city council seat in a backwater town in the middle of nowhere. So yeah, this is the norm. I'm not saying this to argue, I'm saying it to reinforce you (hopefully that's obvious) :-)
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  Yeah, instead of 'centrist' I probably should've said 'mainstream'.

ModernMech 6y ago

AOC and Bernie are picking a $15 minimum wage as the hill they are willing to die on at the moment. Changing the minimum wage from one insufficient value to another slightly larger yet still insufficient value isn't exactly what the left has in mind when they talk about controlling the means of production.

relaxing 6y ago

The rest the Democrats are far to the right of Bernie, AOC et al. The left will tell you the mainstream Democratic party is working to minimize the impact of the left wing, and succeeding (see recent failures to enact progressive policy on minimum wage and immigration.)

soundnote 6y ago

de Tocqueville brought this to mind: "Tyranny in democratic republics does not proceed in the same way, however. It ignores the body and goes straight for the soul. The master no longer says: You will think as I do or die. He says: You are free not to think as I do. You may keep your life, your property, and everything else. But from this day forth you shall be as a stranger among us. You will retain your civic privileges, but they will be of no use to you. For if you seek the votes of your fellow citizens, they will withhold them, and if you seek only their esteem, they will feign to refuse even that. You will remain among men, but you will forfeit your rights to humanity. When you approach your fellow creatures, they will shun you as one who is impure. And even those who believe in your innocence will abandon you, lest they, too, be shunned in turn. Go in peace, I will not take your life, but the life I leave you with is worse than death."