3 ms·

While I love Matrix and support their mission, this pricing is quite a bit steep, as well as the 5-person limit being too restricting. They will price out large

While I love Matrix and support their mission, this pricing is quite a bit steep, as well as the 5-person limit being too restricting. They will price out large majority of people who actually could/would want to switch.

HolidayHuckle 6y ago
Hi - Yep, we totally get that this won't be for everyone. We're currently looking for ways to be able to increase the efficiency of these smaller servers and to be able to pass those cost reductions on to customers. We've also got some projects in the works aimed at being able to offer single account / single user "homeservers" and obviously the pricing for these would be much lower, but we're not quite there yet. More info. on this as soon as we have it. In case it's not clear, it isn't a 5 person limit for Element Home servers, it's just that up to 5 (active) users are included in your subscription. You can add more users at any time for an additional $2/month. Also bear in mind that you're not charged for everyone registered on your homserver, just the ones that are using it :) (I head up Element Matrix Services / EMS)
- crazypython 6y ago
  What hosting provider are you using? AWS, GCP, and Azure are several times more expensive with the same performance as smaller providers, of which DigitalOcean provides the worst performance. (50% less) https://vpsbenchmarks.com https://vpsbenchmarks.com
  - HolidayHuckle 6y ago
    Currently we're using AWS (but we're hoping to become more cloud agnostic in the future). (I head up Element Matrix Services)
    - crazypython 6y ago
      > Currently we're using AWS (but we're hoping to become more cloud agnostic in the future). If you're not using Lightsail, you're overpaying. Look at this comparison: https://www.vpsbenchmarks.com/compare/ec2_vs_vultr https://www.vpsbenchmarks.com/compare/ec2_vs_vultr AWS bandwidth through anything but Lightsail is 1000 times more expensive. AWS servers are 3-5x more expensive. AWS isn't successful because it's good, it's successful because it has good marketing. Look at OVH and Linode. Is Element hiring, by the way? Here's a look at my skills, if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26305569 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26305569
      - HolidayHuckle 6y ago
        Thanks for the info on Lightsail. We'll look in to it as one of the options for the future. As for AWS, yep, they're certainly not cheap, but they do have good points in quite a few areas and give you a great number of tools to build with. Hopefully the trick is not to get too dependent upon their infrastructure, and we'll definitely be looking to other cloud platforms to help bring the costs down in future. > Is Element hiring, by the way? Here's a look at my skills, if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26305569 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26305569 Yes, we are hiring (and are rapidly growing at the moment)! Thanks for the link - I'll pass it on to one of the team (not just saying that, I really will). That said, in the mean time you're probably best to have a look at the open positions (https://apply.workable.com/elementio/ https://apply.workable.com/elementio/) and see if there's something there that particularly takes your fancy. If there is, apply, and say that Rick from EMS sent you via way of HN ;)
        crazypython 6y ago
        > As for AWS, yep, they're certainly not cheap, but they do have good points in quite a few areas and give you a great number of tools to build with. Hopefully the trick is not to get too dependent upon their infrastructure, and we'll definitely be looking to other cloud platforms to help bring the costs down in future. AWS wins because it has a fun user interface and good marketing. > they're certainly not cheap The cheapest component (compute) of an on-demand EC2 instance is five times more expensive than Linode, Vultr, and OVH. Bandwidth is, I'm not exaggerating at all, 1000 times more expensive. If you use reserved instance discounts and Spot Instances, it's still two times more expensive than hourly-billed Linode and Vultr. If you're willing to bear with its worse GUI and monthly billing, OVH is a good choice. They've been in business for longer than AWS and operate more servers. Their prices are so low that they're in shortage. If you need instances that aren't in shortage, try Azure. "AWS Cost Optimization Guru" is a mistake. The best way to optimize your AWS costs is to migrate off of AWS. > give you a great number of tools to build with Yes, although you could host your compute at one of the third-parties I mentioned, and still call into AWS services. It adds a little bit of latency for great cost savings. Linode and Vultr gives you DNS, Kubernetes, block storage, load balancers, and private network in addition to compute. > Yes, we are hiring Let me know where I could be most useful at Element, or if there's a need for a general fixer role.
kevincox 6y ago
Keep in mind that this doesn't mean you can only chat with 5 people. You can chat with anyone who uses Matrix. You can only have 5 people with addresses at your server. Basically identical to email hosting with a 5 account limit.
- HolidayHuckle 6y ago
  Yep, as you say, you get to chat with anyone in the Matrix ecosystem (or even further afield if you use bridges). > You can only have 5 people with addresses at your server Actually, it's better than this. You can technically have as many people / accounts as you like registered on your server, but you're limited to 5 active users by default. Users are considered "active" if they've been logged in to and using your server for more than two days in a given 30 day period.
kdmytro 6y ago
I wonder if tye price is truly steep, or if I am just spoiled by free IM services offered by data harvesting companies? $5 per month is a big entry cost. And I am not sure how well this price will work in the long run when people begin using the server a lot. Perhaps pricing based on message throughput or used storage capacity would make for an easier and fairer entry.

HolidayHuckle 6y ago

Hi - Yep, we totally get that this won't be for everyone. We're currently looking for ways to be able to increase the efficiency of these smaller servers and to be able to pass those cost reductions on to customers. We've also got some projects in the works aimed at being able to offer single account / single user "homeservers" and obviously the pricing for these would be much lower, but we're not quite there yet. More info. on this as soon as we have it. In case it's not clear, it isn't a 5 person limit for Element Home servers, it's just that up to 5 (active) users are included in your subscription. You can add more users at any time for an additional $2/month. Also bear in mind that you're not charged for everyone registered on your homserver, just the ones that are using it :) (I head up Element Matrix Services / EMS)

crazypython 6y ago
What hosting provider are you using? AWS, GCP, and Azure are several times more expensive with the same performance as smaller providers, of which DigitalOcean provides the worst performance. (50% less) https://vpsbenchmarks.com https://vpsbenchmarks.com
- HolidayHuckle 6y ago
  Currently we're using AWS (but we're hoping to become more cloud agnostic in the future). (I head up Element Matrix Services)
  - crazypython 6y ago
    > Currently we're using AWS (but we're hoping to become more cloud agnostic in the future). If you're not using Lightsail, you're overpaying. Look at this comparison: https://www.vpsbenchmarks.com/compare/ec2_vs_vultr https://www.vpsbenchmarks.com/compare/ec2_vs_vultr AWS bandwidth through anything but Lightsail is 1000 times more expensive. AWS servers are 3-5x more expensive. AWS isn't successful because it's good, it's successful because it has good marketing. Look at OVH and Linode. Is Element hiring, by the way? Here's a look at my skills, if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26305569 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26305569
    - HolidayHuckle 6y ago
      Thanks for the info on Lightsail. We'll look in to it as one of the options for the future. As for AWS, yep, they're certainly not cheap, but they do have good points in quite a few areas and give you a great number of tools to build with. Hopefully the trick is not to get too dependent upon their infrastructure, and we'll definitely be looking to other cloud platforms to help bring the costs down in future. > Is Element hiring, by the way? Here's a look at my skills, if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26305569 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26305569 Yes, we are hiring (and are rapidly growing at the moment)! Thanks for the link - I'll pass it on to one of the team (not just saying that, I really will). That said, in the mean time you're probably best to have a look at the open positions (https://apply.workable.com/elementio/ https://apply.workable.com/elementio/) and see if there's something there that particularly takes your fancy. If there is, apply, and say that Rick from EMS sent you via way of HN ;)
      - crazypython 6y ago
        > As for AWS, yep, they're certainly not cheap, but they do have good points in quite a few areas and give you a great number of tools to build with. Hopefully the trick is not to get too dependent upon their infrastructure, and we'll definitely be looking to other cloud platforms to help bring the costs down in future. AWS wins because it has a fun user interface and good marketing. > they're certainly not cheap The cheapest component (compute) of an on-demand EC2 instance is five times more expensive than Linode, Vultr, and OVH. Bandwidth is, I'm not exaggerating at all, 1000 times more expensive. If you use reserved instance discounts and Spot Instances, it's still two times more expensive than hourly-billed Linode and Vultr. If you're willing to bear with its worse GUI and monthly billing, OVH is a good choice. They've been in business for longer than AWS and operate more servers. Their prices are so low that they're in shortage. If you need instances that aren't in shortage, try Azure. "AWS Cost Optimization Guru" is a mistake. The best way to optimize your AWS costs is to migrate off of AWS. > give you a great number of tools to build with Yes, although you could host your compute at one of the third-parties I mentioned, and still call into AWS services. It adds a little bit of latency for great cost savings. Linode and Vultr gives you DNS, Kubernetes, block storage, load balancers, and private network in addition to compute. > Yes, we are hiring Let me know where I could be most useful at Element, or if there's a need for a general fixer role.

kevincox 6y ago

Keep in mind that this doesn't mean you can only chat with 5 people. You can chat with anyone who uses Matrix. You can only have 5 people with addresses at your server. Basically identical to email hosting with a 5 account limit.

HolidayHuckle 6y ago
Yep, as you say, you get to chat with anyone in the Matrix ecosystem (or even further afield if you use bridges). > You can only have 5 people with addresses at your server Actually, it's better than this. You can technically have as many people / accounts as you like registered on your server, but you're limited to 5 active users by default. Users are considered "active" if they've been logged in to and using your server for more than two days in a given 30 day period.

kdmytro 6y ago

I wonder if tye price is truly steep, or if I am just spoiled by free IM services offered by data harvesting companies? $5 per month is a big entry cost. And I am not sure how well this price will work in the long run when people begin using the server a lot. Perhaps pricing based on message throughput or used storage capacity would make for an easier and fairer entry.