4 ms·

When we were renovating our flat I was really astounded by the lack of quality. Everything sold in the mainstream kitchen and bathroom retailers is flimsy garba

When we were renovating our flat I was really astounded by the lack of quality. Everything sold in the mainstream kitchen and bathroom retailers is flimsy garbage. There's also really nice stuff available. You have to look for it though, and seek out alternative niche suppliers. That means that most people, when they fit a kitchen or bathroom, fit the mainstream crap. It's not even necessarily more expensive to get the nice stuff. Which inevitably is mostly metallised plastic or foil wrapped particleboard, and then after a few years it gets dented or cracked and has to be torn out and replaced. Once you start looking for crap fittings, its everywhere. It doesn't matter whether its a high end apartment or a cheap one - the fittings are equally shit. The only way to defend against it is to specify everything, because the default option for everything from plug sockets to skirting board to cupboard hinges is just crap!

XorNot 6y ago
The problem is there's a massive, costly overhead to trying to find quality goods - that's why the mainstream persists. Spend a week drilling through websites trying to figure out any one product - say taps. What's a good tap? What makes a good tap? Are there brands considered good, are they actually good? Can you reasonably get them in your area? After a week or more you might have some idea about any of this. And then the next week you're on to cupboard sliders...and then all of this can't be outsourced because the OP's note - that plenty of people are happy to take your money and do not even slightly better. At which point, "it works for now" becomes more important if that's not your life's ambition.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Search costs and informational costs are really under-rated by the "free market" evangelists.
  - novok 6y ago
    Which is why sites like the wirecutter, consumer reports, etc are / were very useful. As for this case, I think it's an issue of a large amount of people not being the purchasing deciders vs. the ultimate end user of said stuff. Even if your a homeowner to be, your not going to do a complete reno usually and just leave the house as is for the most part. It's rare to buy something new. It's the enterprise software problem, applied to housing.
  - readflaggedcomm 6y ago
    How do they rate them?
- siltpotato 6y ago
  I think it took me a year of online goofing to figure out what's it and what isn't in the world of guitar pedals. My pedalboard is only now fixed after so much trial and error and shipping return costs.
- dennis_jeeves 6y ago
  The point you make is indeed an important one. The problem actually then boils down to people _collectively_ needing a good tap. Most do not care about quality ( priority of short term over long term), hence the market will be flooded with things that are bad. To make things worse generally speaking it is said=d that you get what you pay for. This is probably not true for a lot of goods and services out there.
sneak 6y ago
Everything you said is true. What bugs me most about this is that all of the main distributors/retailers have low end and high end options, and they are both crap. The fact that high quality stuff is available at the same price as the high-priced "high end option" crap these places are pushing is infuriating, like they aren't doing their job as a retailer. You'd think offering a better selection of high quality fixtures and fittings at equivalent prices would be a business opportunity. I wonder how much of this is due to the Depot/Lowe's duopoly. Why are the markets in the US failing so badly, and ever-increasingly, over the last two dozen years?
- leoedin 6y ago
  I live in the UK, not the US. It's a global phenomenon! It's probably due to some combination of limited brand power (most people have no idea who makes taps or cupboards), rarely made decisions (how often do you renovate a house? The only people doing it often are the commercial ones who have no interest in longevity. Everyone else is naive) and very long feedback cycles. (A kitchen should be able to withstand 20 years+ of use, but by the time you realise that it's falling apart after 10, it's too late.) Nobody in the whole process has any interest in the fittings being robust except the buyer, and they almost certainly don't want to spend weeks researching and specifying every single bit (or take on the risk of specifying all the bits, only to find that they don't fit together). So they outsource the part selection to the kitchen designer or builder, who's main motivation is getting something that looks OK and has a good profit margin. Interestingly I would add the one area this doesn't appear to be a problem is in kitchen appliances. Maybe it's because brand recognition is so much better.
  - simonbarker87 6y ago
    When I read your above post I assumed UK (flat) but then when I read the rest of your comment I wondered if you were living in the US but this confirms UK. I’ve never had any issue buying decent quality building materials and fixtures and fittings across 2 full house renovations. There are things to avoid from all of the big name stores and brands that are targeting the cheap landlord market but in the main I’ve had no difficulties finding good quality parts at reasonable prices here. Most of IKEA is rubbish with one exception, kitchens, far better than B&Q, wickes and Wren - probably not as good as Howdens but far better than would be expected I feel.

XorNot 6y ago

The problem is there's a massive, costly overhead to trying to find quality goods - that's why the mainstream persists. Spend a week drilling through websites trying to figure out any one product - say taps. What's a good tap? What makes a good tap? Are there brands considered good, are they actually good? Can you reasonably get them in your area? After a week or more you might have some idea about any of this. And then the next week you're on to cupboard sliders...and then all of this can't be outsourced because the OP's note - that plenty of people are happy to take your money and do not even slightly better. At which point, "it works for now" becomes more important if that's not your life's ambition.

pjc50 6y ago
Search costs and informational costs are really under-rated by the "free market" evangelists.
- novok 6y ago
  Which is why sites like the wirecutter, consumer reports, etc are / were very useful. As for this case, I think it's an issue of a large amount of people not being the purchasing deciders vs. the ultimate end user of said stuff. Even if your a homeowner to be, your not going to do a complete reno usually and just leave the house as is for the most part. It's rare to buy something new. It's the enterprise software problem, applied to housing.
- readflaggedcomm 6y ago
  How do they rate them?
siltpotato 6y ago
I think it took me a year of online goofing to figure out what's it and what isn't in the world of guitar pedals. My pedalboard is only now fixed after so much trial and error and shipping return costs.
dennis_jeeves 6y ago
The point you make is indeed an important one. The problem actually then boils down to people _collectively_ needing a good tap. Most do not care about quality ( priority of short term over long term), hence the market will be flooded with things that are bad. To make things worse generally speaking it is said=d that you get what you pay for. This is probably not true for a lot of goods and services out there.

sneak 6y ago

Everything you said is true. What bugs me most about this is that all of the main distributors/retailers have low end and high end options, and they are both crap. The fact that high quality stuff is available at the same price as the high-priced "high end option" crap these places are pushing is infuriating, like they aren't doing their job as a retailer. You'd think offering a better selection of high quality fixtures and fittings at equivalent prices would be a business opportunity. I wonder how much of this is due to the Depot/Lowe's duopoly. Why are the markets in the US failing so badly, and ever-increasingly, over the last two dozen years?

leoedin 6y ago
I live in the UK, not the US. It's a global phenomenon! It's probably due to some combination of limited brand power (most people have no idea who makes taps or cupboards), rarely made decisions (how often do you renovate a house? The only people doing it often are the commercial ones who have no interest in longevity. Everyone else is naive) and very long feedback cycles. (A kitchen should be able to withstand 20 years+ of use, but by the time you realise that it's falling apart after 10, it's too late.) Nobody in the whole process has any interest in the fittings being robust except the buyer, and they almost certainly don't want to spend weeks researching and specifying every single bit (or take on the risk of specifying all the bits, only to find that they don't fit together). So they outsource the part selection to the kitchen designer or builder, who's main motivation is getting something that looks OK and has a good profit margin. Interestingly I would add the one area this doesn't appear to be a problem is in kitchen appliances. Maybe it's because brand recognition is so much better.
- simonbarker87 6y ago
  When I read your above post I assumed UK (flat) but then when I read the rest of your comment I wondered if you were living in the US but this confirms UK. I’ve never had any issue buying decent quality building materials and fixtures and fittings across 2 full house renovations. There are things to avoid from all of the big name stores and brands that are targeting the cheap landlord market but in the main I’ve had no difficulties finding good quality parts at reasonable prices here. Most of IKEA is rubbish with one exception, kitchens, far better than B&Q, wickes and Wren - probably not as good as Howdens but far better than would be expected I feel.