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This is what I am trying to figure out. I have a UK focused website therefore I use UK based servers, US focused website I use US based servers. Aren't most pr

This is what I am trying to figure out. I have a UK focused website therefore I use UK based servers, US focused website I use US based servers. Aren't most processing chips/hardware made in China for all major western tech companies anyway? I get the RU/China server suspiciousness but as far as I can tell, US unicorns are up to the same tricks and openly/brazenly pillaging data without any threat or fear.

buran77 6y ago
We're in a western/US-centric bubble here on HN. People are aware data collection is bad, they'd rather not have it at all even if they'll accept some from Google, MS, Amazon, etc., but most of all they'd rather not have China/Russia/NK/etc. have any that data. As you can already tell, just asking the question is enough to get flak. Otherwise most consumer products (devices or software) phone home for one reason or another, whether it's telemetry and data collection, basic functionality that's implemented exclusively via cloud, or more advanced cloud features. It's down to deciding whether you trust western legal system and increased transparency to deal with the nefarious aspect of data collection, rather than the Russian, Chinese, etc. legal systems and transparency. Almost every device or software with network connectivity I played with phoned home: the Philips Hue gateway (Netherlands), Tado (Germany), Apple Homepod (US), Amazon Alexa/Fire* stuff (US), Synology (Taiwan), Unifi Controller (US), LG/Samsung smart TVs (South Korea), Google Chromecast (US), random assortment of network connected cameras (China, Taiwan), and a big etc. here. Some do a better job than others and just connect for basic stuff as far as I can tell, some enabled telemetry without asking and after the backlash ask again after every update, some have no option to disable this connectivity, etc. One thing that trips most people looking at this for the first time is when they start off with blocking internet connectivity for the least trustworthy devices (Chinese brands) and immediately see a zillion attempts being blocked, even if the device keeps working. They conclude the devices are trying to exfiltrate that much data. They're most likely constantly reattempting until they get a response. Some of my network cameras would try every second but after a successful connection the flood stopped and they barely sent anything. I chose to "complicate" my life a bit and buy hardware that I can flash with some open source firmware cutting out the cloud features completely, or connecting via "home made" solutions everywhere I can then using my home VPN to control them if needed. Whether China or the US have that data is of little real consequence to me right now but it's a matter of principle and I'd rather not shift my principles based on geography.
- melomal 6y ago
  Thank you for your response and clarification! Your point on the multiple attempts to connect etc seems to make sense. I would imagine a lot of people checking these requests may jump to conclusions that every piece of data is being pulled across. > just asking the question is enough to get flak You are definitely right about that!
kwanbix 6y ago
Of course (almost?) no government is a saint. However, China is a totalitarian non-democratic government. I would fear the Chinese government much more than the US or UK governments, for example. But I might be too naive.
- melomal 6y ago
  > I would fear the Chinese government If you are outside of China then surely there is nothing to really be scared of? What could the Chinese government do with your data that could cause harm? I get it's the principle but ultimately we are all scared of sharing our data with China and I am not sure why?
  - AniseAbyss 6y ago
    I don't get it either. Whenever someone uses the words "the West" I cringe because because every goddamn privacy invasion has come from our friendly American overlords. Who I might ad are not just like us.
    - melomal 6y ago
      > I cringe because because every goddamn privacy invasion has come from our friendly American overlords Exactly! It seems that the propaganda machine is still rolling heavy.
      - mmmmmk 6y ago
        There is a big difference. An open, democratic government can be peacefully corrected. A closed, totalitarian government cannot be. If the chinese and russian governments were open, then we could worry less about them.
        osmarks 6y ago
        Western governments operate mass surveillance programs seemingly without any public open oversight or democratic input.

buran77 6y ago

We're in a western/US-centric bubble here on HN. People are aware data collection is bad, they'd rather not have it at all even if they'll accept some from Google, MS, Amazon, etc., but most of all they'd rather not have China/Russia/NK/etc. have any that data. As you can already tell, just asking the question is enough to get flak. Otherwise most consumer products (devices or software) phone home for one reason or another, whether it's telemetry and data collection, basic functionality that's implemented exclusively via cloud, or more advanced cloud features. It's down to deciding whether you trust western legal system and increased transparency to deal with the nefarious aspect of data collection, rather than the Russian, Chinese, etc. legal systems and transparency. Almost every device or software with network connectivity I played with phoned home: the Philips Hue gateway (Netherlands), Tado (Germany), Apple Homepod (US), Amazon Alexa/Fire* stuff (US), Synology (Taiwan), Unifi Controller (US), LG/Samsung smart TVs (South Korea), Google Chromecast (US), random assortment of network connected cameras (China, Taiwan), and a big etc. here. Some do a better job than others and just connect for basic stuff as far as I can tell, some enabled telemetry without asking and after the backlash ask again after every update, some have no option to disable this connectivity, etc. One thing that trips most people looking at this for the first time is when they start off with blocking internet connectivity for the least trustworthy devices (Chinese brands) and immediately see a zillion attempts being blocked, even if the device keeps working. They conclude the devices are trying to exfiltrate that much data. They're most likely constantly reattempting until they get a response. Some of my network cameras would try every second but after a successful connection the flood stopped and they barely sent anything. I chose to "complicate" my life a bit and buy hardware that I can flash with some open source firmware cutting out the cloud features completely, or connecting via "home made" solutions everywhere I can then using my home VPN to control them if needed. Whether China or the US have that data is of little real consequence to me right now but it's a matter of principle and I'd rather not shift my principles based on geography.

melomal 6y ago
Thank you for your response and clarification! Your point on the multiple attempts to connect etc seems to make sense. I would imagine a lot of people checking these requests may jump to conclusions that every piece of data is being pulled across. > just asking the question is enough to get flak You are definitely right about that!

kwanbix 6y ago

Of course (almost?) no government is a saint. However, China is a totalitarian non-democratic government. I would fear the Chinese government much more than the US or UK governments, for example. But I might be too naive.

melomal 6y ago
> I would fear the Chinese government If you are outside of China then surely there is nothing to really be scared of? What could the Chinese government do with your data that could cause harm? I get it's the principle but ultimately we are all scared of sharing our data with China and I am not sure why?
- AniseAbyss 6y ago
  I don't get it either. Whenever someone uses the words "the West" I cringe because because every goddamn privacy invasion has come from our friendly American overlords. Who I might ad are not just like us.
  - melomal 6y ago
    > I cringe because because every goddamn privacy invasion has come from our friendly American overlords Exactly! It seems that the propaganda machine is still rolling heavy.
    - mmmmmk 6y ago
      There is a big difference. An open, democratic government can be peacefully corrected. A closed, totalitarian government cannot be. If the chinese and russian governments were open, then we could worry less about them.
      - osmarks 6y ago
        Western governments operate mass surveillance programs seemingly without any public open oversight or democratic input.