7 ms·

I was working near some game publishers many many years ago, and the case when they would crack the game in order to publish/republish/rewrap installer, localiz

I was working near some game publishers many many years ago, and the case when they would crack the game in order to publish/republish/rewrap installer, localize to some local market or release some critical patch, when the original team was not responsive, not experienced in certain tech issues, had no resources allocated, was drown in bureaucracy, or even was not existing anymore, was not so uncommon. The case when this is breaching original contracts is the well the separate issue. Often times the publisher and developer have different views of the world, - relationships in this industry have always been tense.

vbezhenar 6y ago
Why would anyone need publishers I just don't understand. I paid money to Factorio developers. I've got zipped game. Best UX in the world. Compare that to the Steam or Origin pain when I need to spent hours trying to install all that stuff and having my computer full of spyware afterwards, yuck!
- Causality1 6y ago
  Because they give developers money to make a game before they have any sales.
- Svip 6y ago
  Not everyone can afford to manage a server, nor have the necessary skills to do so, and thus Steam becomes a convenient tool to distribute one's game through. Factorio too is sold on Steam, but is also available through their own site. I've heard that one of the appealing features of Steam for developers is how easy it is to upload new versions and generally distribute your game.
  - gogopuppygogo 6y ago
    The network effect of having established a marketplace with millions of consumers who pay for games is non-trivial. Steam is a trusted name in gaming for a reason.
    - cestith 6y ago
      Steam also promotes games, has reviews of them, and suggests games directly to players. The first time I personally heard of many of the games I play has been through Steam, Humble, GOG, Epic's game launcher/store app or other launchers and game selling sites. I also can reinstall hundreds of games from Steam without remembering who developed it, who paid for the development, or who published it to Steam. I just tell the Steam client to install it based on the name of the game. That's a great usability and convenience feature.
- eznzt 6y ago
  They are producers. Developing a game may take years and you need to pay salaries.
- killtimeatwork 6y ago
  Direct sales involve handling credit cards (i.e. chargebacks, scams) as well as getting in bed with potentially every tax authority in the world. For example, for every game sold in European country, you need to collect VAT and transfer it to that country's tax authority (currently, there's something like 28 of them?). This also includes filling out forms... Steam takes care of all that for you. However! Publishers don't do that. Publishers' value proposition is funding the development and doing the marketing for you, so that you can concentrate on making the game. If the game tanks, they eat up the losses (i.e. it's an investment, not a loan). The retail is a separate issue and, while it's handled by the publishers, is still likely to be handled via Steam or other platforms.
  - fvv 6y ago
    I'm in eu and don't have to pay vat for extra eu or even extra country but in eu sales.. it depends on bilateral agreement between countries i suppose..
    - e98cuenc 6y ago
      you definitely have to add the relevant VAT, depending on your customer country, declare it in MOSS where it will be sent to every individual country. You also have to check if your customer is any other of the countries / states that collect VAT (India, Indonesia, many US states and oh so many random countries) and make a proper declaration in each country. It's almost impossible to do it right if you don't go with a partner to handle it all.
    - badsectoracula 6y ago
      You do not pay additional VAT, you just pay the VAT of the country your customer is resident of instead of your own country. To do that you need to be registered in all EU countries and file VAT for each one of them. There is an alternative for online services, etc called VAT MOSS[0], mainly meant for smaller sellers which allow you to keep paying VAT in your own country without registering in all of them but you still need to apply different VAT rates depending on your customer's country. Also you need to keep records of these transactions. Steam (and other services... well actually even Steam uses an external service for this) handle that stuff for you and you only deal with Steam. [0] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-digital-services-moss-scheme/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-digit...
- terafo 6y ago
  You may need publisher for one of the following: Marketing Localization Covering development costs Physical distribution It is definitely possible to do marketing and localization alone as a company, but it will divert studio's focus from game development, which could do more harm than good since game development is insanely hard. Physical distribution is almost impossible to do properly for a small company. Of course there are game investors that invest into specific games and it could be better fit than publishers, but you can do both. need to spent hours trying to install all that stuff That is pretty much not a case.
- sabellito 6y ago
  Hours trying to install? What do you mean? I do think that the steam's fee of 30% feels strange, but all the infrastructure they provide is pretty sweet. How do you update the zip file you downloaded? Do you trust every developer to keep their download servers running forever so you can always download it later?
  - kranner 6y ago
    Same here, Steam is not painful at all to install and manage. And I don't get how Steam is spyware, other than tracking when and for how long I run which Steam game, and what my hardware configuration is.
    - zajio1am 6y ago
      > other than tracking when and for how long I run which Steam game Well, this sounds like spyware (unless it is opt-in).
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - tomnipotent 6y ago
    > fee of 30% feels strange This is comparable to what every developer on every console has paid for over three decades in publishing, and still leagues better than what they were making from boxed retail sales.
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    I plan to publish my game on Steam soon. The 30% seems steep until you realise they're handling distribution, payment processing, forums and marketing if the initial traction is good. There are many great quality of life features in Steamworks that enhance my game greatly, and I do not need any server infrastructure. That being said, I would not enjoy having to pay a publisher as well.
- stonemetal12 6y ago
  In general the publisher pays for development. For big games from known studios, you get a several million dollar advance that pays for development of the game. The game's royalties payback the advance and hopefully you earn something. That is why EA owns so many game studios one big flop and suddenly you owe EA a couple of million.
  - SeanBoocock 6y ago
    No one owes the publisher anything for a commercial failure in standard publisher contract where they are funding development. The publisher is taking the financial risk; that’s the point. The developer will make additional money beyond the advance based on terms of the publishing contract (common terms would be developer starts getting paid royalties when publisher has 1XX% recouped development + marketing spend).
    - stonemetal12 6y ago
      TIL, I always thought advances had to be paid back on underperformance.
      - setr 6y ago
        In that case, would there be any purpose going to a publisher rather than a bank directly? You’d be paying infinite royalty on success in exchange for.. marketing & distribution?
- lmkg 6y ago
  Weather Factory, developer of Cultist Simulator, has been open about the business side of their development. This includes a few blog posts about their decision to go with a publisher (Humble Bundle) instead of going alone. tl;dr Up-front advance was important for cash flow and risk management. At the end of the day they ended up with less profit but think it was the right decision anyways. http://weatherfactory.biz/state-of-the-factory-year-1/ http://weatherfactory.biz/state-of-the-factory-year-1/ Note also that there is a difference between a publisher (Humble) and a distributor (Steam), which is covered in that post.
- flohofwoe 6y ago
  Traditionally, game publishers were mostly a bank. Their main job was not marketing and publishing (although that's important too), but financing a game's development until it was ready for release, and sometimes to help out with resources and services (like localization, quality assurance, etc). That's why Kickstarter and Steam Early Access are such a big deal, they allowed new financing models and independent game-dev studios to emanzipate themselves from publishers.
- driverdan 6y ago
  In the same way that authors who write books "need" publishers. You can self publish but that can make it much harder for an unknown person to succeed. In some cases a publisher makes sense, in some it does not.
- dunefox 6y ago
  > Compare that to the Steam or Origin pain when I need to spent hours trying to install all that stuff and having my computer full of spyware afterwards, yuck! Yeah, double clicking on a game and having it automatically downloaded and executed... hours of work and hundreds of viruses! You have obviously never used steam and origin.
  - wackget 6y ago
    More like: 1. Download Steam client 2. Click to install Steam client 3. Steam client starts to download even more crap itself 4. Steam client actually starts installing 5. Sign In/Register Then when you want to install or even play a game... 1. Launch Steam 2. [UPDATING STEAM, PLEASE WAIT]... Jesus Christ... 3. Sign In/Register 4. Click to install game 5. Launch game 6. [CHECKING FOR UPDATES, PLEASE WAIT]... 7. Finally play game And if your internet connection goes offline? Enjoy, you're fucked. Yeah, fuck Steam and all similar bloatware.
    - jhauris 6y ago
      As someone who sometimes has spotty internet service, steam games work just fine when steam is in offline mode. I share the frustration of needing to update a game before playing it, but that actually can be prevented on a per-game basis, and obviously doesn't happen if running in offline mode.
    - dunefox 6y ago
      So... your problem is what exactly? Downloading files takes time? Steam has to be installed? Automatic updates?
    - yareth 6y ago
      Steam has offline mode which does not require internet connection. You still may not be able to play the game if the game itself requires an internet connection, but that has nothing to do with Steam.
- legitster 6y ago
  In this case, the publishers gave the money to develop the game.
Mandatum 6y ago
This explains the Razer1911 release for CoD!

vbezhenar 6y ago

Why would anyone need publishers I just don't understand. I paid money to Factorio developers. I've got zipped game. Best UX in the world. Compare that to the Steam or Origin pain when I need to spent hours trying to install all that stuff and having my computer full of spyware afterwards, yuck!

Causality1 6y ago
Because they give developers money to make a game before they have any sales.
Svip 6y ago
Not everyone can afford to manage a server, nor have the necessary skills to do so, and thus Steam becomes a convenient tool to distribute one's game through. Factorio too is sold on Steam, but is also available through their own site. I've heard that one of the appealing features of Steam for developers is how easy it is to upload new versions and generally distribute your game.
- gogopuppygogo 6y ago
  The network effect of having established a marketplace with millions of consumers who pay for games is non-trivial. Steam is a trusted name in gaming for a reason.
  - cestith 6y ago
    Steam also promotes games, has reviews of them, and suggests games directly to players. The first time I personally heard of many of the games I play has been through Steam, Humble, GOG, Epic's game launcher/store app or other launchers and game selling sites. I also can reinstall hundreds of games from Steam without remembering who developed it, who paid for the development, or who published it to Steam. I just tell the Steam client to install it based on the name of the game. That's a great usability and convenience feature.
eznzt 6y ago
They are producers. Developing a game may take years and you need to pay salaries.
killtimeatwork 6y ago
Direct sales involve handling credit cards (i.e. chargebacks, scams) as well as getting in bed with potentially every tax authority in the world. For example, for every game sold in European country, you need to collect VAT and transfer it to that country's tax authority (currently, there's something like 28 of them?). This also includes filling out forms... Steam takes care of all that for you. However! Publishers don't do that. Publishers' value proposition is funding the development and doing the marketing for you, so that you can concentrate on making the game. If the game tanks, they eat up the losses (i.e. it's an investment, not a loan). The retail is a separate issue and, while it's handled by the publishers, is still likely to be handled via Steam or other platforms.
- fvv 6y ago
  I'm in eu and don't have to pay vat for extra eu or even extra country but in eu sales.. it depends on bilateral agreement between countries i suppose..
  - e98cuenc 6y ago
    you definitely have to add the relevant VAT, depending on your customer country, declare it in MOSS where it will be sent to every individual country. You also have to check if your customer is any other of the countries / states that collect VAT (India, Indonesia, many US states and oh so many random countries) and make a proper declaration in each country. It's almost impossible to do it right if you don't go with a partner to handle it all.
  - badsectoracula 6y ago
    You do not pay additional VAT, you just pay the VAT of the country your customer is resident of instead of your own country. To do that you need to be registered in all EU countries and file VAT for each one of them. There is an alternative for online services, etc called VAT MOSS[0], mainly meant for smaller sellers which allow you to keep paying VAT in your own country without registering in all of them but you still need to apply different VAT rates depending on your customer's country. Also you need to keep records of these transactions. Steam (and other services... well actually even Steam uses an external service for this) handle that stuff for you and you only deal with Steam. [0] https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-digital-services-moss-scheme/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-digit...
terafo 6y ago
You may need publisher for one of the following: Marketing Localization Covering development costs Physical distribution It is definitely possible to do marketing and localization alone as a company, but it will divert studio's focus from game development, which could do more harm than good since game development is insanely hard. Physical distribution is almost impossible to do properly for a small company. Of course there are game investors that invest into specific games and it could be better fit than publishers, but you can do both. need to spent hours trying to install all that stuff That is pretty much not a case.
sabellito 6y ago
Hours trying to install? What do you mean? I do think that the steam's fee of 30% feels strange, but all the infrastructure they provide is pretty sweet. How do you update the zip file you downloaded? Do you trust every developer to keep their download servers running forever so you can always download it later?
- kranner 6y ago
  Same here, Steam is not painful at all to install and manage. And I don't get how Steam is spyware, other than tracking when and for how long I run which Steam game, and what my hardware configuration is.
  - zajio1am 6y ago
    > other than tracking when and for how long I run which Steam game Well, this sounds like spyware (unless it is opt-in).
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- tomnipotent 6y ago
  > fee of 30% feels strange This is comparable to what every developer on every console has paid for over three decades in publishing, and still leagues better than what they were making from boxed retail sales.
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  I plan to publish my game on Steam soon. The 30% seems steep until you realise they're handling distribution, payment processing, forums and marketing if the initial traction is good. There are many great quality of life features in Steamworks that enhance my game greatly, and I do not need any server infrastructure. That being said, I would not enjoy having to pay a publisher as well.
stonemetal12 6y ago
In general the publisher pays for development. For big games from known studios, you get a several million dollar advance that pays for development of the game. The game's royalties payback the advance and hopefully you earn something. That is why EA owns so many game studios one big flop and suddenly you owe EA a couple of million.
- SeanBoocock 6y ago
  No one owes the publisher anything for a commercial failure in standard publisher contract where they are funding development. The publisher is taking the financial risk; that’s the point. The developer will make additional money beyond the advance based on terms of the publishing contract (common terms would be developer starts getting paid royalties when publisher has 1XX% recouped development + marketing spend).
  - stonemetal12 6y ago
    TIL, I always thought advances had to be paid back on underperformance.
    - setr 6y ago
      In that case, would there be any purpose going to a publisher rather than a bank directly? You’d be paying infinite royalty on success in exchange for.. marketing & distribution?
lmkg 6y ago
Weather Factory, developer of Cultist Simulator, has been open about the business side of their development. This includes a few blog posts about their decision to go with a publisher (Humble Bundle) instead of going alone. tl;dr Up-front advance was important for cash flow and risk management. At the end of the day they ended up with less profit but think it was the right decision anyways. http://weatherfactory.biz/state-of-the-factory-year-1/ http://weatherfactory.biz/state-of-the-factory-year-1/ Note also that there is a difference between a publisher (Humble) and a distributor (Steam), which is covered in that post.
flohofwoe 6y ago
Traditionally, game publishers were mostly a bank. Their main job was not marketing and publishing (although that's important too), but financing a game's development until it was ready for release, and sometimes to help out with resources and services (like localization, quality assurance, etc). That's why Kickstarter and Steam Early Access are such a big deal, they allowed new financing models and independent game-dev studios to emanzipate themselves from publishers.
driverdan 6y ago
In the same way that authors who write books "need" publishers. You can self publish but that can make it much harder for an unknown person to succeed. In some cases a publisher makes sense, in some it does not.
dunefox 6y ago
> Compare that to the Steam or Origin pain when I need to spent hours trying to install all that stuff and having my computer full of spyware afterwards, yuck! Yeah, double clicking on a game and having it automatically downloaded and executed... hours of work and hundreds of viruses! You have obviously never used steam and origin.
- wackget 6y ago
  More like: 1. Download Steam client 2. Click to install Steam client 3. Steam client starts to download even more crap itself 4. Steam client actually starts installing 5. Sign In/Register Then when you want to install or even play a game... 1. Launch Steam 2. [UPDATING STEAM, PLEASE WAIT]... Jesus Christ... 3. Sign In/Register 4. Click to install game 5. Launch game 6. [CHECKING FOR UPDATES, PLEASE WAIT]... 7. Finally play game And if your internet connection goes offline? Enjoy, you're fucked. Yeah, fuck Steam and all similar bloatware.
  - jhauris 6y ago
    As someone who sometimes has spotty internet service, steam games work just fine when steam is in offline mode. I share the frustration of needing to update a game before playing it, but that actually can be prevented on a per-game basis, and obviously doesn't happen if running in offline mode.
  - dunefox 6y ago
    So... your problem is what exactly? Downloading files takes time? Steam has to be installed? Automatic updates?
  - yareth 6y ago
    Steam has offline mode which does not require internet connection. You still may not be able to play the game if the game itself requires an internet connection, but that has nothing to do with Steam.
legitster 6y ago
In this case, the publishers gave the money to develop the game.

Mandatum 6y ago

This explains the Razer1911 release for CoD!