4 ms·

Pity it requires X11. I figured it would be a terminal application.

caslon 6y ago
Acme is inherently graphical. Moving to a terminal application would be a regression, in this particular case. Then again, X11 is also a regression, in Acme's case.
- tyingq 6y ago
  Watching the video, this "Edit" editor does look like could work in a terminal. The split screens that come up don't look much different than what you see with tmux, for example. Edit: He mentions it's been updated since the video to use multiple actual windows.
  - caslon 6y ago
    Acme doesn't work in a terminal. Acme is a window manager that can edit text, use multiple fonts simultaneously, revolves around the mouse and has near-perfect synchronicity with the underlying system. Edit's long-term goals list is more or less "become more like Acme."[1] It would be incredibly unfortunate to sacrifice the ability to become more like Acme by shooting yourself in the foot and making it terminal-based, and anyone really in the market for acme with vi characteristics or vice versa probably would realize why the paradigm doesn't work in a purely-TUI manner. [1] https://c9x.me/edit/ideas.txt https://c9x.me/edit/ideas.txt
- butterisgood 6y ago
  Acme uses devdraw for graphics, and devdraw, on macOS anyway, doesn't require X11.
  - caslon 6y ago
    This was the point, yes. Though Aqua/whatever Mac is calling their thing now is also a downgrade.
ithkuil 6y ago
Works also on other graphical systems. Acme itself talks the plan9 graphical protocol which. There is an implementation of that protocol in the plan9 from userspace port (https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/man/man1/devdraw.html https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/man/man1/devdraw.html). I'm using it on macos where it's a native application with retina support and native macos fonts, native macos clipboard etc. IIIRC there is a web implementation too but last time I tried it it didn't work. YMMV
- butterisgood 6y ago
  Got a link to the web devdraw? That sounds terribly interesting.
  - ithkuil 6y ago
    there is https://github.com/sirnewton01/9webdraw https://github.com/sirnewton01/9webdraw but I was too lazy to try to build that with plan9port
MisterTea 6y ago
Plan 9 abandoned the ancient concept of the typewriter interface and instead uses a graphical 2d engine called devdraw. With that you can mix and match text with graphics in the same window. We emulate typewriter interfaces in the vt program which is a graphical program that implements a vt terminal. Its 2021, use graphics. Most people want a typewriter interface because they want/need to edit files in an ssh session on a remote server. Plan 9 doesn't do remote teletype control and instead imports/exports resources. Of course plan 9 has ssh but it is split into three separate programs: an ssh client that performs the regular teletype interface to a unix machine, sshnet which imports the remote systems tcp stack, and sshfs which mounts a remote file tree locally. If I wanted to edit text files on a remote unix machine, I'd just mount the file tree locally using sshfs and run sam or acme locally. Bring the resources to you and use your local tool set. Then you don't have to worry if the remote machine has x installed because you don't care.

Acme is inherently graphical. Moving to a terminal application would be a regression, in this particular case. Then again, X11 is also a regression, in Acme's case.

tyingq 6y ago
Watching the video, this "Edit" editor does look like could work in a terminal. The split screens that come up don't look much different than what you see with tmux, for example. Edit: He mentions it's been updated since the video to use multiple actual windows.
- caslon 6y ago
  Acme doesn't work in a terminal. Acme is a window manager that can edit text, use multiple fonts simultaneously, revolves around the mouse and has near-perfect synchronicity with the underlying system. Edit's long-term goals list is more or less "become more like Acme."[1] It would be incredibly unfortunate to sacrifice the ability to become more like Acme by shooting yourself in the foot and making it terminal-based, and anyone really in the market for acme with vi characteristics or vice versa probably would realize why the paradigm doesn't work in a purely-TUI manner. [1] https://c9x.me/edit/ideas.txt https://c9x.me/edit/ideas.txt
butterisgood 6y ago
Acme uses devdraw for graphics, and devdraw, on macOS anyway, doesn't require X11.
- caslon 6y ago
  This was the point, yes. Though Aqua/whatever Mac is calling their thing now is also a downgrade.

ithkuil 6y ago

Works also on other graphical systems. Acme itself talks the plan9 graphical protocol which. There is an implementation of that protocol in the plan9 from userspace port (https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/man/man1/devdraw.html https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/man/man1/devdraw.html). I'm using it on macos where it's a native application with retina support and native macos fonts, native macos clipboard etc. IIIRC there is a web implementation too but last time I tried it it didn't work. YMMV

butterisgood 6y ago
Got a link to the web devdraw? That sounds terribly interesting.
- ithkuil 6y ago
  there is https://github.com/sirnewton01/9webdraw https://github.com/sirnewton01/9webdraw but I was too lazy to try to build that with plan9port

MisterTea 6y ago

Plan 9 abandoned the ancient concept of the typewriter interface and instead uses a graphical 2d engine called devdraw. With that you can mix and match text with graphics in the same window. We emulate typewriter interfaces in the vt program which is a graphical program that implements a vt terminal. Its 2021, use graphics. Most people want a typewriter interface because they want/need to edit files in an ssh session on a remote server. Plan 9 doesn't do remote teletype control and instead imports/exports resources. Of course plan 9 has ssh but it is split into three separate programs: an ssh client that performs the regular teletype interface to a unix machine, sshnet which imports the remote systems tcp stack, and sshfs which mounts a remote file tree locally. If I wanted to edit text files on a remote unix machine, I'd just mount the file tree locally using sshfs and run sam or acme locally. Bring the resources to you and use your local tool set. Then you don't have to worry if the remote machine has x installed because you don't care.