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I hate the Windows desktop (and server). Right now I am using XFCE. Much faster than Windows, lower memory footprint and I got it to look similar to macOS to so

I hate the Windows desktop (and server). Right now I am using XFCE. Much faster than Windows, lower memory footprint and I got it to look similar to macOS to some extent. Using Windows compared to using XFCE is like pulling a stubborn donkey. No, I don't want to update, I don't want a voice assistant, I don't want absurd UIs, I don't want telemetry, I just want a goddamn menu and desktop icons.

zeusk 6y ago
What do you mean I have to use iwconfig to fix my network? No, I just want to connect to a network. I don't want to write scripts for every device to suspend and resume.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  You don't need iwconfig to fix your network. You can just use the network settings UI. Next.
- kiwijamo 6y ago
  It's been years since that was necessary. All major distros do this sort of thing automatically now with GUI configuration tools as a first class option. Even on bare bones distros like Debian.
  - petepete 6y ago
    Setting up my laptop with Fedora is a more straightforward job than doing the same task with Windows 10. Everything worked, including the fingerprint reader - no manual install of anything required.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- franga2000 6y ago
  I've only had to touch iwconfig once (on a desktop OS) and it was when my network card wasn't even supported on Windows, so it was still a win for Linux. But yes, if something breaks, no shit you have to pull out the command line - it's the same on Windows, only a lot of the time, you can't actually fix it because they don't give you the necessary tools. As for suspend/resume scripts, I've never had to do that and I use Arch (yes, hahah, but you know what I mean).
  - zeusk 6y ago
    funny you say that, because Arch is what had me learn about those monstrosities (suspend/resume scripts). Granted, it was back around 2011 though so I'm sure things have changed quite a bit since. Windows has a certification process for most hardware and drivers, things still break but any major or wide breaks are caught quite early. I just have less time to tinker with stuff when random flakiness pops up which happened a lot when I used Arch and Ubuntu.
oblio 6y ago
Well, what can I say, good for you :-) >No, I don't want to update Why don't you want to update? You really should. > I don't want a voice assistant It takes less than 5 minutes to disable and hide it. > I don't want absurd UIs How do you define absurd UIs? Do you think 1 billion people using Windows are all absurd? If so, that's highly arrogant of you. > I don't want telemetry It's a bit annoying and philosophically not a great thing, but you can disable 99% of their telemetry in about 15 minutes. > I just want a goddamn menu and desktop icons Windows offers this and more. I've used Xfce for a long time, it's nice. But the whole "it's faster and lower memory footprint" doesn't matter much these days, especially since Windows is really well optimized now. How many people are using Xfce on systems with 1GB of RAM anymore? Plus Windows obviously offers much more than just Xfce and Xfce is also under-resourced, developer-wise, and on the brink of becoming abandonware. Linux desktops really are not in a good place today.
- csande17 6y ago
  > How do you define absurd UIs? Do you think 1 billion people using Windows are all absurd? If so, that's highly arrogant of you. Most of those 1 billion people didn't choose Windows 10 because they looked at it and thought, "yeah, this user interface is so much better than Windows 7". Most of those people didn't look at the latest update to Windows 10 and think, "yeah, these changes to the UI are major improvements, my life will be so much easier than on the previous version of Windows 10". For most of the non-programmers I know, it's more of a boiling-frog situation. Microsoft blackmails them into "upgrading" using security patches, and every "upgrade" makes the UI less intuitive, slower to use, or worse in some other way. Just last month, for example, I got a call from my parents because the Photos app was no longer allowing them to save an edited copy of a photo to a different folder. Turns out, yeah, you just couldn't do that anymore. It's absurd, but my parents certainly aren't the absurd ones.
- franga2000 6y ago
  > Why don't you want to update? You really should. Yes, tomorrow evening when I have time, not literally right now in the middle of a 2-day 3D render that my computer has been running for a 24 hours now. > It takes less than 5 minutes to disable and hide it. Until an update re-enables it or pops an un-hidable fullscreen popup with misleading questions that tricks you into enabling it again. > [absurd UIs] You can't possibly be defending the shitshow that is the Win10 setting menu! Everyone hates it, from techies, developers, gamers, grandmas... I could probably write an essay just about the actual bugs and missing features, not even counting stupid design. > [telemetry] See the Cortana reply above > [resources] Few people are running <1GB of RAM, true, but very many are still running 4GB. That means you can basically open a Word document and two Chrome tabs before your system becomes unusable. This isn't an exaggeration - if the two tabs are heavy (like FB and Gmail, for example), the system will aready start swapping. For another datapoint, I can no longer play certain games (heavily modded) on Win, because they actually need at least 6GB or RAM and that's enough to crash my 8GB system. On Linux, I can run the game, Spotify and like 3 Firefox tabs on the same machine, and I'm using a DE that notorious for high RAM usage (KDE Plasma).

zeusk 6y ago

What do you mean I have to use iwconfig to fix my network? No, I just want to connect to a network. I don't want to write scripts for every device to suspend and resume.

29athrowaway 6y ago
You don't need iwconfig to fix your network. You can just use the network settings UI. Next.
kiwijamo 6y ago
It's been years since that was necessary. All major distros do this sort of thing automatically now with GUI configuration tools as a first class option. Even on bare bones distros like Debian.
- petepete 6y ago
  Setting up my laptop with Fedora is a more straightforward job than doing the same task with Windows 10. Everything worked, including the fingerprint reader - no manual install of anything required.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
franga2000 6y ago
I've only had to touch iwconfig once (on a desktop OS) and it was when my network card wasn't even supported on Windows, so it was still a win for Linux. But yes, if something breaks, no shit you have to pull out the command line - it's the same on Windows, only a lot of the time, you can't actually fix it because they don't give you the necessary tools. As for suspend/resume scripts, I've never had to do that and I use Arch (yes, hahah, but you know what I mean).
- zeusk 6y ago
  funny you say that, because Arch is what had me learn about those monstrosities (suspend/resume scripts). Granted, it was back around 2011 though so I'm sure things have changed quite a bit since. Windows has a certification process for most hardware and drivers, things still break but any major or wide breaks are caught quite early. I just have less time to tinker with stuff when random flakiness pops up which happened a lot when I used Arch and Ubuntu.

oblio 6y ago

Well, what can I say, good for you :-) >No, I don't want to update Why don't you want to update? You really should. > I don't want a voice assistant It takes less than 5 minutes to disable and hide it. > I don't want absurd UIs How do you define absurd UIs? Do you think 1 billion people using Windows are all absurd? If so, that's highly arrogant of you. > I don't want telemetry It's a bit annoying and philosophically not a great thing, but you can disable 99% of their telemetry in about 15 minutes. > I just want a goddamn menu and desktop icons Windows offers this and more. I've used Xfce for a long time, it's nice. But the whole "it's faster and lower memory footprint" doesn't matter much these days, especially since Windows is really well optimized now. How many people are using Xfce on systems with 1GB of RAM anymore? Plus Windows obviously offers much more than just Xfce and Xfce is also under-resourced, developer-wise, and on the brink of becoming abandonware. Linux desktops really are not in a good place today.

csande17 6y ago
> How do you define absurd UIs? Do you think 1 billion people using Windows are all absurd? If so, that's highly arrogant of you. Most of those 1 billion people didn't choose Windows 10 because they looked at it and thought, "yeah, this user interface is so much better than Windows 7". Most of those people didn't look at the latest update to Windows 10 and think, "yeah, these changes to the UI are major improvements, my life will be so much easier than on the previous version of Windows 10". For most of the non-programmers I know, it's more of a boiling-frog situation. Microsoft blackmails them into "upgrading" using security patches, and every "upgrade" makes the UI less intuitive, slower to use, or worse in some other way. Just last month, for example, I got a call from my parents because the Photos app was no longer allowing them to save an edited copy of a photo to a different folder. Turns out, yeah, you just couldn't do that anymore. It's absurd, but my parents certainly aren't the absurd ones.
franga2000 6y ago
> Why don't you want to update? You really should. Yes, tomorrow evening when I have time, not literally right now in the middle of a 2-day 3D render that my computer has been running for a 24 hours now. > It takes less than 5 minutes to disable and hide it. Until an update re-enables it or pops an un-hidable fullscreen popup with misleading questions that tricks you into enabling it again. > [absurd UIs] You can't possibly be defending the shitshow that is the Win10 setting menu! Everyone hates it, from techies, developers, gamers, grandmas... I could probably write an essay just about the actual bugs and missing features, not even counting stupid design. > [telemetry] See the Cortana reply above > [resources] Few people are running <1GB of RAM, true, but very many are still running 4GB. That means you can basically open a Word document and two Chrome tabs before your system becomes unusable. This isn't an exaggeration - if the two tabs are heavy (like FB and Gmail, for example), the system will aready start swapping. For another datapoint, I can no longer play certain games (heavily modded) on Win, because they actually need at least 6GB or RAM and that's enough to crash my 8GB system. On Linux, I can run the game, Spotify and like 3 Firefox tabs on the same machine, and I'm using a DE that notorious for high RAM usage (KDE Plasma).