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The Christian faith is based on the fundamental fact that Jesus is God in human flesh. I worship Jesus. Muslims do not. No Muslim will claim to worship the same

The Christian faith is based on the fundamental fact that Jesus is God in human flesh. I worship Jesus. Muslims do not. No Muslim will claim to worship the same God as I do.

bosswipe 6y ago
Jesus is "the son" and Muhammad is "the prophet" of the same God.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  If you’re trying to tell me what I believe, you’re wrong. By the way, I’m a pastor. If you’re trying to tell me what Muslims believe, you’re also wrong. Saying that Jesus is the Son of God is very different from saying that He is a prophet of God. That difference is precisely why Muslims cannot agree that Jesus is the Son of God and why I cannot agree that Muhammad is a prophet of God.
  - skissane 6y ago
    > If you’re trying to tell me what I believe, you’re wrong. By the way, I’m a pastor. I don't dispute that's what you believe, but it isn't the position of all Christians. The Catholic Church is quite explicit about its belief that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. It has expressed that belief in the decree Nostra aetate of the Second Vatican Council, and numerous other Vatican documents since. And the Catholic Church is not alone among Christians in this belief. I think there is a real disagreement among Christians as to whether the God of Islam is a (somewhat distorted) account of the God of Christianity (the official Catholic position, but certainly some Protestants agree with it too), or whether it is a completely different entity (the position of yourself among others). I think from the Muslim point of view – the Islamic designation of Christians as "People of the Book" only makes sense if Muslims believe that Christians worship the same God as they do, even if wrongly and confusedly.
  - bosswipe 6y ago
    Geez Christians can be so sensitive about minor things. You can believe whatever you want, I don't care. But it is a fact that the traditions derive from the same jewish abrahmic God. If you don't like it that doesn't change the fact.
    - jtbayly 6y ago
      Me: Javascript is a version of Java for the web. Techy: Ummm... no. Me: Techies can be so sensitive about minor things. You can believe whatever you want, I don't care. But it is a fact that Java and Javascript are both programming languages. If you don't like it that doesn't change the fact.
nine_k 6y ago
I will not even try to discuss the intricacies of Trinity; the Nicene Council tried hard to come to an agreement regarding it, and in 1054, details of it were the cause of the Great Schism.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  We’re not talking about the intricacies, though. We’re talking about the basics of it. Every Christian worships Jesus as God. No Muslim will. It’s that simple. When Muhammad says that Jesus is a prophet, it is a rejection of what Jesus claimed about Himself. “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me.” Many of course have tried to act as though the two are compatible, but when you come right down to it, I believe what Jesus said, and Muhammad didn’t.
  - Erem 6y ago
    If you believe this, then you must also believe that Christians and Jews do not worship the same God since obviously Jews do not believe in the deity of Jesus either.
    - jtbayly 6y ago
      Correct. But this is nothing new. Just as when the Jews were bowing down to the golden calf that Aaron made, they were not worshipping Jehovah, though they claimed to be.

The Christian faith is based on the fundamental fact that Jesus is God in human flesh. I worship Jesus. Muslims do not. No Muslim will claim to worship the same God as I do.

bosswipe 6y ago

Jesus is "the son" and Muhammad is "the prophet" of the same God.

jtbayly 6y ago
If you’re trying to tell me what I believe, you’re wrong. By the way, I’m a pastor. If you’re trying to tell me what Muslims believe, you’re also wrong. Saying that Jesus is the Son of God is very different from saying that He is a prophet of God. That difference is precisely why Muslims cannot agree that Jesus is the Son of God and why I cannot agree that Muhammad is a prophet of God.
- skissane 6y ago
  > If you’re trying to tell me what I believe, you’re wrong. By the way, I’m a pastor. I don't dispute that's what you believe, but it isn't the position of all Christians. The Catholic Church is quite explicit about its belief that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. It has expressed that belief in the decree Nostra aetate of the Second Vatican Council, and numerous other Vatican documents since. And the Catholic Church is not alone among Christians in this belief. I think there is a real disagreement among Christians as to whether the God of Islam is a (somewhat distorted) account of the God of Christianity (the official Catholic position, but certainly some Protestants agree with it too), or whether it is a completely different entity (the position of yourself among others). I think from the Muslim point of view – the Islamic designation of Christians as "People of the Book" only makes sense if Muslims believe that Christians worship the same God as they do, even if wrongly and confusedly.
- bosswipe 6y ago
  Geez Christians can be so sensitive about minor things. You can believe whatever you want, I don't care. But it is a fact that the traditions derive from the same jewish abrahmic God. If you don't like it that doesn't change the fact.
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    Me: Javascript is a version of Java for the web. Techy: Ummm... no. Me: Techies can be so sensitive about minor things. You can believe whatever you want, I don't care. But it is a fact that Java and Javascript are both programming languages. If you don't like it that doesn't change the fact.

nine_k 6y ago

I will not even try to discuss the intricacies of Trinity; the Nicene Council tried hard to come to an agreement regarding it, and in 1054, details of it were the cause of the Great Schism.

jtbayly 6y ago
We’re not talking about the intricacies, though. We’re talking about the basics of it. Every Christian worships Jesus as God. No Muslim will. It’s that simple. When Muhammad says that Jesus is a prophet, it is a rejection of what Jesus claimed about Himself. “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me.” Many of course have tried to act as though the two are compatible, but when you come right down to it, I believe what Jesus said, and Muhammad didn’t.
- Erem 6y ago
  If you believe this, then you must also believe that Christians and Jews do not worship the same God since obviously Jews do not believe in the deity of Jesus either.
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    Correct. But this is nothing new. Just as when the Jews were bowing down to the golden calf that Aaron made, they were not worshipping Jehovah, though they claimed to be.