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Dunno about it being the first big taboo word. I find that the C-word [0] inhabits kind of a similar space. The demographics are different, and I suspect that
by filoeleven 6y ago
Dunno about it being the first big taboo word. I find that the C-word [0] inhabits kind of a similar space. The demographics are different, and I suspect that more people overall view the c-word as highly taboo, both because the n-word has been to a larger extent than the other reclaimed within some Black subcultures[1], and because the US has significant populations who use it with the intent of either causing offense to the out-group or for signaling in-group status with their peers.
Meanwhile in England, C is still seen as quite a rude word, but the level of taboo is seemingly lower than in the US. NSFW language exchange discussion: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/7059/why-is-cnt-so-much-more-derogatory-in-the-us-than-the-uk https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/7059/why-is-cnt-...
I’m not a historian, but I recall reading that a century or more ago, religious blasphemies occupied a similar space. Innocuous-sounding exclamations like “jeez!” and the half-archaic “zounds!” are evolved from the formerly-taboo “Jesus!” and “God’s wounds!” respectively.
Back then, taboo was concerned with offending/demeaning God, and now taboo is concerned with offending/demeaning black people and women. I see this as an improvement, because insulting God is between you and God, while insulting people can cause real harm to them.
[0] https://youtu.be/cR2tp5j5xD0 https://youtu.be/cR2tp5j5xD0 (Arrested Development clip, I’m still a little surprised they got this past the censors. Mild NSFW?)
[1] I don’t mean to imply that it’s largely accepted, it’s just that in my experience N is more widely-used publicly by some Black subcultures than C is used publicly by women who are in feminist subcultures. It has not been reclaimed to the same extent.
- samatman 6y agoI don't find that to be true for the c-word (American here). I'll edit out of respect for the low-profanity nature of HN discourse, but if someone said "Jan had a falling out with Marcia after she called her a meddling c#nt", that wouldn't phase me. I would find it amusing and childish if someone said "c-word" as a mention, in a context where an f-bomb would not be out of place, which is most adult conversation. Yeah calling someone a daft c#nt isn't something we really do here, and it's about as misogynistic as insults get, but by contrast: white Americans really do take pains to never pronounce the n-word, use, mention, singing along with the radio, or under any other circumstance. No white American would complete the sentence, "as Muhammad Ali put it, 'no Viet Cong ever called me...'". It's an actual taboo, at this point: it is simply never to be said, and it's tough to make a living or complete an education after a single offense, if made in public or documented. Edit to add: I did say "no white American" but there's a certain subculture who do, and I have no idea what to call them now, since the name itself is pretty offensive. We would sometimes refer to them as Wegroes to be droll.
- filoeleven 6y agoYes that’s fair. My experience may be biased regarding more conservative usage of words or ideas of what’s considered to be taboo.
- samatman 6y agoIt's true that if you go and use that word in anything like the British normal fashion, let alone Australian, you will get panicked looks and be shushed. But then again: for the most part, Americans don't know what bugger means. It registers as a silly British euphemism for the f-word! Truly two people divided by a common language. Lets not even get into the fact that you can buy an accessory where the label says it's a "fanny pack"...
- filoeleven 6y agoYeah, I only learned about all of these differences when I got into British panel shows, some of which are truly fantastic. 8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown was my introduction, and Taskmaster is far and away one of the funniest things on TV. The latter show will broadly appeal to nerds, because most task descriptions (like “bring in the heaviest item that fits inside a shoe box”) leave loopholes large enough to drive lorries through, and the contestants are by turns great and terrible at exploiting them (in this case, “a copy of Mein Kampf”; which category this falls under is left as an exercise for the reader).
- bradleyjg 6y ago> while insulting people can cause real harm to them. How so?
- saagarjha 6y agoBeing demeaning is pretty much always the first step in hurting people psychologically.
- bradleyjg 6y agoIt seems like there is a rhetorical escalation ladder from insult to hurt to harm. I’m not saying that can never be the case but I do think the contemporary blurring of the lines is unfortunate.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y agoWell, as just one data point, I have never heard the phrase "The C Word" until I read your post, and honestly wasn't exactly sure which word you were referring to until I read further. I don't think it's anywhere close to the same level of prohibition as the N word.
- filoeleven 6y agoYes, that was half used to avoid the vulgarity and half because another running gag in Arrested Development involves a boat named “The Seaward.” I’m sure I’ve seen it referred to as such elsewhere, but it’s probably not common. Ain’t the first time I’ve been wrong.
- selimthegrim 6y agoYou might be amused to hear about the purported Gaelic origins of Holy Cow and Gee whillikers then.