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Chinese browser collects data for CCP which will use it for spying and for action against you, your family and your country. American company will collect data

by yumraj 6y ago

Chinese browser collects data for CCP which will use it for spying and for action against you, your family and your country. American company will collect data to show you ads and profit. Are they really same?

serf 6y ago
American agencies routinely collect data from the internet that results in actions against people. One could say the motives are different, but to act as if American groups collect data purely for profit isn't true. >Are they really the same? No, but acting similarly doesn't imply identical similarity.
itsoktocry 6y ago
>American company will collect data to show you ads and profit Unless you get a target on your back, in which case the American company will provide the American law enforcement agencies with whatever data they want to take action against you and your family. Your assertion is just a variation of "if you're not doing anything wrong you shouldn't worry about spying".
- godelski 6y ago
  FWIW I didn't read the gp as supporting data collection, only noting a difference between corporations gathering data and governments. I don't support data collection, but I do think the distinction is useful.
- yumraj 6y ago
  > Your assertion is just a variation of "if you're not doing anything wrong you shouldn't worry about spying". Really, that is what you got from my comment. In the case of CCP it can even be who you are, as in Tibetan, Uighur and so on.. Or, a national of a different country that China wants to spy on, or a relative of someone that China thinks has a differing opinion from CCP and so on.. It's not even on the same planet, let along in the same ballpark..
  - zeusk 6y ago
    well under the trump administration, we were at the state where ICE was getting tips from unlawful traffic stops and deporting said immigrants/refugees. They're both evil, just that US is less so.
    - aww_dang 6y ago
      Immigration violations are crimes the world over. Disliking the CCP's policies, not so much.
godelski 6y ago
I think this point is very debatable, but I do think there's at least 2 good distinctions. 1) there's a difference between a corporate entity gathering data and a government. There's a difference those entities could potentially have on your life. In the latter case there is a bit of an arms race, like Google trying to grab all your data but also not sharing it with Facebook. In the latter case a government can consolidate all the data. 2) There's a big difference between your government collecting my data and my government collecting my data. This can go both ways too, but there's a lot of factors that dictate this: are our governments friendly with one another? Do I trust my government? How much? Do I trust your government? Etc. They really aren't the same and personally I'd rather not have my data collected, but I'd rather it be dispersed with a corporate arms race who aren't allowed to set laws than an aggregate that belongs to a party that has much more control over my life.
AlexandrB 6y ago
> American company will collect data to show you ads and profit. 7 years later and it's like Snowden never even existed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)
- yumraj 6y ago
  Fair enough, if we want argue along those lines - if you're in country X, would you like to be spied on by your country's gov AND China? I, for one, would prefer, if I have a choice, it to be just my Gov and not a foreign Gov that I consider to be hostile..
  - wbsun 6y ago
    > I, for one, would prefer, if I have a choice, it to be just my Gov and not a foreign Gov that I consider to be hostile.. This seems intuitive at first sight but doesn't make sense to me: is it your Gov or a foreign Gov that can more likely bother your life?
  - Daho0n 6y ago
    Would I rather have some data harvested by the local three letter agency and some by a random Chinese company versus all my data harvested by an American entity (most western three letter agencies share with the US)? I would most definitely rather have them out of the reach of US spying even if it means sending it to China instead. You might consider PRC hostile but how much do you think it takes for your data to get US agents come knocking on your door versus PRC agents? Sure today it might not happen but in your parents youth it could have. In your children's lifetime your words today might harm them. The short version is that unless you live inside the PRC data harvested on you is highly unlikely to matter no matter what you do. Inside the US or US allies? Be careful.
  - yibg 6y ago
    I would go the other way. What can China do to me unless I go there? Vs what can the US do to me since I live there, and even if I don’t live there, the US government reach is a lot wider.
nuker 6y ago
> American company will collect data to show you ads and profit. Are they really same? And your kids data. Grades, searches, web history, pics, diaries. I can totally see new private APIs for recruiters, banks, insurances - like personal assessment scores.
approxim8ion 6y ago
to show you ads and profit, filter what you see online, decide your eligibility for housing and credit, imply your guilt by association or poor classification... and so on. Don't try to whitewash it.
frashelaw 6y ago
Remember anything about Snowden's leaks? American companies happily share all the data they collect with local police departments and intelligence agencies, in bulk, with absolute impunity. If anything, you face a much greater threat from the American intelligence apparatus than one in a foreign country.

by yumraj 6y ago

serf 6y ago

American agencies routinely collect data from the internet that results in actions against people. One could say the motives are different, but to act as if American groups collect data purely for profit isn't true. >Are they really the same? No, but acting similarly doesn't imply identical similarity.

itsoktocry 6y ago

>American company will collect data to show you ads and profit Unless you get a target on your back, in which case the American company will provide the American law enforcement agencies with whatever data they want to take action against you and your family. Your assertion is just a variation of "if you're not doing anything wrong you shouldn't worry about spying".

godelski 6y ago
FWIW I didn't read the gp as supporting data collection, only noting a difference between corporations gathering data and governments. I don't support data collection, but I do think the distinction is useful.
yumraj 6y ago
> Your assertion is just a variation of "if you're not doing anything wrong you shouldn't worry about spying". Really, that is what you got from my comment. In the case of CCP it can even be who you are, as in Tibetan, Uighur and so on.. Or, a national of a different country that China wants to spy on, or a relative of someone that China thinks has a differing opinion from CCP and so on.. It's not even on the same planet, let along in the same ballpark..
- zeusk 6y ago
  well under the trump administration, we were at the state where ICE was getting tips from unlawful traffic stops and deporting said immigrants/refugees. They're both evil, just that US is less so.
  - aww_dang 6y ago
    Immigration violations are crimes the world over. Disliking the CCP's policies, not so much.

godelski 6y ago

I think this point is very debatable, but I do think there's at least 2 good distinctions. 1) there's a difference between a corporate entity gathering data and a government. There's a difference those entities could potentially have on your life. In the latter case there is a bit of an arms race, like Google trying to grab all your data but also not sharing it with Facebook. In the latter case a government can consolidate all the data. 2) There's a big difference between your government collecting my data and my government collecting my data. This can go both ways too, but there's a lot of factors that dictate this: are our governments friendly with one another? Do I trust my government? How much? Do I trust your government? Etc. They really aren't the same and personally I'd rather not have my data collected, but I'd rather it be dispersed with a corporate arms race who aren't allowed to set laws than an aggregate that belongs to a party that has much more control over my life.

AlexandrB 6y ago

> American company will collect data to show you ads and profit. 7 years later and it's like Snowden never even existed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

yumraj 6y ago
Fair enough, if we want argue along those lines - if you're in country X, would you like to be spied on by your country's gov AND China? I, for one, would prefer, if I have a choice, it to be just my Gov and not a foreign Gov that I consider to be hostile..
- wbsun 6y ago
  > I, for one, would prefer, if I have a choice, it to be just my Gov and not a foreign Gov that I consider to be hostile.. This seems intuitive at first sight but doesn't make sense to me: is it your Gov or a foreign Gov that can more likely bother your life?
- Daho0n 6y ago
  Would I rather have some data harvested by the local three letter agency and some by a random Chinese company versus all my data harvested by an American entity (most western three letter agencies share with the US)? I would most definitely rather have them out of the reach of US spying even if it means sending it to China instead. You might consider PRC hostile but how much do you think it takes for your data to get US agents come knocking on your door versus PRC agents? Sure today it might not happen but in your parents youth it could have. In your children's lifetime your words today might harm them. The short version is that unless you live inside the PRC data harvested on you is highly unlikely to matter no matter what you do. Inside the US or US allies? Be careful.
- yibg 6y ago
  I would go the other way. What can China do to me unless I go there? Vs what can the US do to me since I live there, and even if I don’t live there, the US government reach is a lot wider.

nuker 6y ago

> American company will collect data to show you ads and profit. Are they really same? And your kids data. Grades, searches, web history, pics, diaries. I can totally see new private APIs for recruiters, banks, insurances - like personal assessment scores.

approxim8ion 6y ago

to show you ads and profit, filter what you see online, decide your eligibility for housing and credit, imply your guilt by association or poor classification... and so on. Don't try to whitewash it.

frashelaw 6y ago

Remember anything about Snowden's leaks? American companies happily share all the data they collect with local police departments and intelligence agencies, in bulk, with absolute impunity. If anything, you face a much greater threat from the American intelligence apparatus than one in a foreign country.