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> “Recently,” I told Carolyn, “I’ve been feeling a little like a Confederate Statue. I think people are getting a little sick of me and are waiting for me to ma

> “Recently,” I told Carolyn, “I’ve been feeling a little like a Confederate Statue. I think people are getting a little sick of me and are waiting for me to make a mistake so they can pull me down and trample me.” I can't be the only person who thinks that this is an odd and inappropriate comparison to make, can I? But it doesn't surprise me that someone who thinks that this is a reasonable analogy in a public setting would be interpreted as making racist remarks.

marshmallow_12 6y ago
i'm surprised and grateful that it wasn't
DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
> I can't be the only person who thinks that this is an odd and inappropriate comparison to make, can I? You're probably right. But I think there are also many who take a view opposite of yours. Maybe that's why these debates rage for multiple years, instead of being quickly resolved.
- tesnirnat 6y ago
  My father is like this. He believes very strongly that he should be allowed to say anything and other people should be able to take it. I don't really agree, personally, but I empathize with the central crux of the argument (freedom of speech, or something like that). Nobody likes to be told what (or what not) to do. But I think life would be easier if we all spent some time thinking about how our audience would perceive our words before we say them out loud.
cout 6y ago
I had a similar internal response when I read that sentence. I could easily interpret it as claiming that people are pulling down Confederate statues because they are a little sick of them rather than because of what the statues represent.
- jariel 6y ago
  Try to grasp that 'what they represent' is maybe not what you think they do. The Washington Monument was built by slaves, in the name of a man who owned slaves, in a nation full of slaves. Does it represent slavery? Or that era? Even though the Civil war was to a great extent fought over slavery - it was fundamentally states vs. states. If it were really about slavery, it very well have been 'sub groups' vs. 'sub groups' all over the US. There were economic jealousies as well. The statues are symbols of the ancestors of those who were living there, heroes to one side - and that's mostly it. They are arguably problematically offensive to some, but it's unlikely they are 'symbols of racism' in the sense that this is what White Southerners are inspired by. If rednecks were driving by, aspiring for the days when they 'put those blacks back in their place' - I would say raze them all to the ground. But that's not remotely it. What Southerners see in those monuments is just more or less what regular Americans seen in the Washington monument. That's it. Pride, while glossing over the uglier stuff.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - santoshalper 6y ago
    I agree that the vast majority of people who display the confederate flag or want to protect confederate monuments are not specifically inspired by overt racism or support for slavery. I know this because I grew up in the South and many of my friends and family members held warm feelings for the confederacy. These people were not monsters and they certainly did not believe themselves to be racists, though many of them held a number of racists beliefs individually. That said, I think there is a clear and obvious difference between the Washington monument, which was built by slaves during a time of slavery, and the Confederate flag - a symbol of a movement which was fundamentally about slavery. Confederates betrayed and killed hundreds of thousands of their countrymen for the purpose of protecting slavery. Do you believe that the US Civil War wasn't really about slavery? I encourage you to read the declarations of succession from states like South Carolina (https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp). The idea that the Civil War was not really about slavery, but about "states rights" is revisionist history designed to make the Confederacy seem more sympathetic. The US Civil War was 100.0% about the right to keep slaves and the Confederate States' willingness to murder their countrymen to do so.

marshmallow_12 6y ago

i'm surprised and grateful that it wasn't

DoofusOfDeath 6y ago

> I can't be the only person who thinks that this is an odd and inappropriate comparison to make, can I? You're probably right. But I think there are also many who take a view opposite of yours. Maybe that's why these debates rage for multiple years, instead of being quickly resolved.

tesnirnat 6y ago
My father is like this. He believes very strongly that he should be allowed to say anything and other people should be able to take it. I don't really agree, personally, but I empathize with the central crux of the argument (freedom of speech, or something like that). Nobody likes to be told what (or what not) to do. But I think life would be easier if we all spent some time thinking about how our audience would perceive our words before we say them out loud.

cout 6y ago

I had a similar internal response when I read that sentence. I could easily interpret it as claiming that people are pulling down Confederate statues because they are a little sick of them rather than because of what the statues represent.

jariel 6y ago
Try to grasp that 'what they represent' is maybe not what you think they do. The Washington Monument was built by slaves, in the name of a man who owned slaves, in a nation full of slaves. Does it represent slavery? Or that era? Even though the Civil war was to a great extent fought over slavery - it was fundamentally states vs. states. If it were really about slavery, it very well have been 'sub groups' vs. 'sub groups' all over the US. There were economic jealousies as well. The statues are symbols of the ancestors of those who were living there, heroes to one side - and that's mostly it. They are arguably problematically offensive to some, but it's unlikely they are 'symbols of racism' in the sense that this is what White Southerners are inspired by. If rednecks were driving by, aspiring for the days when they 'put those blacks back in their place' - I would say raze them all to the ground. But that's not remotely it. What Southerners see in those monuments is just more or less what regular Americans seen in the Washington monument. That's it. Pride, while glossing over the uglier stuff.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- santoshalper 6y ago
  I agree that the vast majority of people who display the confederate flag or want to protect confederate monuments are not specifically inspired by overt racism or support for slavery. I know this because I grew up in the South and many of my friends and family members held warm feelings for the confederacy. These people were not monsters and they certainly did not believe themselves to be racists, though many of them held a number of racists beliefs individually. That said, I think there is a clear and obvious difference between the Washington monument, which was built by slaves during a time of slavery, and the Confederate flag - a symbol of a movement which was fundamentally about slavery. Confederates betrayed and killed hundreds of thousands of their countrymen for the purpose of protecting slavery. Do you believe that the US Civil War wasn't really about slavery? I encourage you to read the declarations of succession from states like South Carolina (https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp). The idea that the Civil War was not really about slavery, but about "states rights" is revisionist history designed to make the Confederacy seem more sympathetic. The US Civil War was 100.0% about the right to keep slaves and the Confederate States' willingness to murder their countrymen to do so.