4 ms·

The problem isn't that we don't care at all. A lot of us were drawn to software engineering for some reason or other, maybe we can call it "passion." But I rese

by np- 6y ago

The problem isn't that we don't care at all. A lot of us were drawn to software engineering for some reason or other, maybe we can call it "passion." But I resent that my "passion" is only being exploited to make other people more money. If I do something over the weekend, it's not because of any sort of financial motivation. But when it's framed in the employment perspective, obviously, people would prefer to hire those who are going to do more work for less money, and those who spend time studying in their off hours. Why wouldn't they? Now your passion has been taken over and corrupted as a means for somebody else's profit (and chances are you aren't even going to get a cut of the spoils). If you're not spending your weekend learning the latest framework, who even are you? Of course people are going to become cynical when this kind of perversion happens - it's usually only those straight out of college who haven't realized they're being taken advantage of yet. It's actually sad because once you've been around the block a few times with these kinds of managers, your passion starts to feel like a dimming light bulb until it's totally put out. And at that point you're only in it for the paycheck while you're mentally checked out. Just look at the videogame industry and its famous burnout stories to see what happens when you hire a bunch of passionate programmers.

lazide 6y ago
Speaking as someone who has had similar types of burnout type reactions happen (apologies if that is not the case here, I'm reading between the lines) - you don't need to participate in this. It takes more risk, but you could do your own thing, or join a company that has different types of leadership that won't exploit you this way (or in a way that is mutually beneficial in it's exploitation, as it were). These have tradeoffs. Being resentful of it (especially in a hiring context) comes across about as well as someone who goes on a date and rants about how much their ex sucks. It isn't about the company you're interviewing with (though if you see the same things you would like to avoid, then please avoid it and feel free to tell them why respectfully! In my experience it's just pissing in the wind though.) - it's more about frustration and pent up unresolved emotional baggage. No one's perfect. Employers/employees are trying to find a match and work out a deal they can both agree with. An employer looking for 'passion' who is abusing it isn't any different than someone dating who is looking for someone to enable their alcoholism or whatever. It sucks, but you're not going to change the alcoholic by ranting at them on your first date. You will almost certainly never change the alcoholic - and in fact, not your job. Even going as far as a public shaming tirade MIGHT help, but most people are just going to wonder why you care so much and discount you, until it's an army of folks like you. It's about finding something that works for you. And that means taking care of yourself too.
- np- 6y ago
  I do appreciate the looking out. Fortunately I have already left my own personal toxic situation, and went somewhere that respects my boundaries much better - and life is indeed much better. I'm not particularly resentful of it either, I learned a valuable lesson (and sometimes you need to touch the hot stove to realize that it'll burn you). What my prior experiences with this have done is hardened my resolve that my own personal time is indeed 100% my own time. How I choose to spend it is none of the companies' business. Though it does seem like I'm still somewhat triggered by the word "passion" - it just seems like a nice way to beat around the bush for exploitation, especially when coming from those who stand to gain the most from your passion. My attitude now is a bit more cynical in that "what's in it for me" is front and center, and if I'm not satisfied with the answer I will move on.

by np- 6y ago

lazide 6y ago

Speaking as someone who has had similar types of burnout type reactions happen (apologies if that is not the case here, I'm reading between the lines) - you don't need to participate in this. It takes more risk, but you could do your own thing, or join a company that has different types of leadership that won't exploit you this way (or in a way that is mutually beneficial in it's exploitation, as it were). These have tradeoffs. Being resentful of it (especially in a hiring context) comes across about as well as someone who goes on a date and rants about how much their ex sucks. It isn't about the company you're interviewing with (though if you see the same things you would like to avoid, then please avoid it and feel free to tell them why respectfully! In my experience it's just pissing in the wind though.) - it's more about frustration and pent up unresolved emotional baggage. No one's perfect. Employers/employees are trying to find a match and work out a deal they can both agree with. An employer looking for 'passion' who is abusing it isn't any different than someone dating who is looking for someone to enable their alcoholism or whatever. It sucks, but you're not going to change the alcoholic by ranting at them on your first date. You will almost certainly never change the alcoholic - and in fact, not your job. Even going as far as a public shaming tirade MIGHT help, but most people are just going to wonder why you care so much and discount you, until it's an army of folks like you. It's about finding something that works for you. And that means taking care of yourself too.

np- 6y ago
I do appreciate the looking out. Fortunately I have already left my own personal toxic situation, and went somewhere that respects my boundaries much better - and life is indeed much better. I'm not particularly resentful of it either, I learned a valuable lesson (and sometimes you need to touch the hot stove to realize that it'll burn you). What my prior experiences with this have done is hardened my resolve that my own personal time is indeed 100% my own time. How I choose to spend it is none of the companies' business. Though it does seem like I'm still somewhat triggered by the word "passion" - it just seems like a nice way to beat around the bush for exploitation, especially when coming from those who stand to gain the most from your passion. My attitude now is a bit more cynical in that "what's in it for me" is front and center, and if I'm not satisfied with the answer I will move on.