5 ms·

I don't really think no one is allowed to say anything controversial anymore. Plenty of national newspapers are willing to give people front-page editorials to

by A12-B 6y ago

I don't really think no one is allowed to say anything controversial anymore. Plenty of national newspapers are willing to give people front-page editorials to say things that are not mainstream. That's hardly a dark age.

agentdrtran 6y ago
I love "anymore" in these statements, like in the US thirty years ago where anywhere you could speak to a wide audience was tightly controlled by wealthy white men
_-david-_ 6y ago
>Plenty of national newspapers are willing to give people front-page editorials to say things that are not mainstream. Do you have some examples?
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  I have a counter example, just look at the debacle when the New York Times published an op-ed by Senator Tom Cotton and the editorial page editor had to resign because of the outrage about its content: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/07/nyt-opinion-bennet-resigns-cotton-op-ed-306317 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/07/nyt-opinion-bennet-...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - kennywinker 6y ago
    He called for using military force against civil rights activists. Is this the kind of great intellectual leap forward the grandparent post was talking about? Because if you want to talk about cancelling things, using the military to crush and jail activism is cancelling things pretty hard.
    - _-david-_ 6y ago
      He called on the use of force against people doing violence, not the peaceful protestors.
      - kennywinker 6y ago
        "One thing above all else will restore order to our streets: an overwhelming show of force to disperse, detain and ultimately deter lawbreakers." Incited by "violence" (mostly property damage, some clashes with cops trying to box in and disperse non-violent protestors) - but calling for dispersal of everyone. Using the military to crush a civil rights movement
        _-david-_ 6y ago
        Someone peacefully protesting is not a "lawbreaker". The quote you provided only refers to criminals. In fact "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" is explicitly allowed in the Constitution. Please show me where he said peaceful protestors should have force used upon them.
        kennywinker 6y ago
        When he said send in the military to do "an overwhelming show of force". The military isn't going to walk through the crowd picking out the few people smashing windows or throwing bottles. That would not be an OVERWHELMING SHOW OF FORCE. They would march on the crowds, and almost inevitably use lethal force on them. Even if the target is only the ones throwing bottles or smashing windows, the military cannot and would not make that distinction in the moment. We don't have to imagine what it would be like, it's happened before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
        _-david-_ 6y ago
        So whn you said "He called for using military force against civil rights activists" that was not actually accurate? Cotton only said against lawbreakers right?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rrose 6y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/opinion/bon-appetit-cancel-culture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/opinion/bon-appetit-cance... https://www.wsj.com/articles/academic-freedom-is-withering-11614531962 https://www.wsj.com/articles/academic-freedom-is-withering-1... depending on if you consider george will "mainstream"- he is an establishment conservative which certainly is a dissenting viewpoint at the washington post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/unprecedented-untargeted-spending-is-not-necessarily-a-stimulus/2021/02/25/b5902a26-7796-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/unprecedented-untarg... not a newspaper, but a national magazine a front page article with a definitively non-mainstream message: https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/good-guys-with-guns-socialist-gun-club/ https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/good-guys-with-guns-soci...
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    >https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/opinion/bon-appetit-cance https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/opinion/bon-appetit-cance... Seems like a mainstream article. Not sure what the point of this was? I didn't look at the articles mentioned in this article so if that was your point then let me know so I can review them. > https://www.wsj.com/articles/academic-freedom-is-withering-1 https://www.wsj.com/articles/academic-freedom-is-withering-1... I got a paywall so I could only read part of the article. The first part of the article seems to agree with my point that viewpoint discrimination is in fact happening. I didn't get to anything about newspapers before I got the paywall so I don't know what exact this had to do with what I posted. The article seemed quite mainstream to me though. > depending on if you consider george will "mainstream"- he is an establishment conservative which certainly is a dissenting viewpoint at the washington post I am getting a paywall so I couldn't read the article, but it seemed mainstream. Based on what I could gather it sounds like he supports a more fiscally responsible stimulus and to have it targeted to people who actually need it rather than to everybody. Assuming that is the gist of the article then I think that is decently mainstream. I would agree that it is a dissenting viewpoint for the Washington Post though. >not a newspaper, but a national magazine a front page article with a definitively non-mainstream message This article was pretty long so I skimmed it (so if I missed an important detail let me know). It sounds like a mainstream message. Gun ownership and protection of oneself with guns is a mainstream message in the US. Maybe it is a bit non-mainstream since the author is a socialist, but nothing stood out as out of the norm.

by A12-B 6y ago

agentdrtran 6y ago

I love "anymore" in these statements, like in the US thirty years ago where anywhere you could speak to a wide audience was tightly controlled by wealthy white men

_-david-_ 6y ago

>Plenty of national newspapers are willing to give people front-page editorials to say things that are not mainstream. Do you have some examples?

BitwiseFool 6y ago
I have a counter example, just look at the debacle when the New York Times published an op-ed by Senator Tom Cotton and the editorial page editor had to resign because of the outrage about its content: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/07/nyt-opinion-bennet-resigns-cotton-op-ed-306317 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/07/nyt-opinion-bennet-...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kennywinker 6y ago
  He called for using military force against civil rights activists. Is this the kind of great intellectual leap forward the grandparent post was talking about? Because if you want to talk about cancelling things, using the military to crush and jail activism is cancelling things pretty hard.
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    He called on the use of force against people doing violence, not the peaceful protestors.
    - kennywinker 6y ago
      "One thing above all else will restore order to our streets: an overwhelming show of force to disperse, detain and ultimately deter lawbreakers." Incited by "violence" (mostly property damage, some clashes with cops trying to box in and disperse non-violent protestors) - but calling for dispersal of everyone. Using the military to crush a civil rights movement
      - _-david-_ 6y ago
        Someone peacefully protesting is not a "lawbreaker". The quote you provided only refers to criminals. In fact "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" is explicitly allowed in the Constitution. Please show me where he said peaceful protestors should have force used upon them.
        kennywinker 6y ago
        When he said send in the military to do "an overwhelming show of force". The military isn't going to walk through the crowd picking out the few people smashing windows or throwing bottles. That would not be an OVERWHELMING SHOW OF FORCE. They would march on the crowds, and almost inevitably use lethal force on them. Even if the target is only the ones throwing bottles or smashing windows, the military cannot and would not make that distinction in the moment. We don't have to imagine what it would be like, it's happened before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
        _-david-_ 6y ago
        So whn you said "He called for using military force against civil rights activists" that was not actually accurate? Cotton only said against lawbreakers right?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rrose 6y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/opinion/bon-appetit-cancel-culture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/opinion/bon-appetit-cance... https://www.wsj.com/articles/academic-freedom-is-withering-11614531962 https://www.wsj.com/articles/academic-freedom-is-withering-1... depending on if you consider george will "mainstream"- he is an establishment conservative which certainly is a dissenting viewpoint at the washington post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/unprecedented-untargeted-spending-is-not-necessarily-a-stimulus/2021/02/25/b5902a26-7796-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/unprecedented-untarg... not a newspaper, but a national magazine a front page article with a definitively non-mainstream message: https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/good-guys-with-guns-socialist-gun-club/ https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/good-guys-with-guns-soci...
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  >https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/opinion/bon-appetit-cance https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/22/opinion/bon-appetit-cance... Seems like a mainstream article. Not sure what the point of this was? I didn't look at the articles mentioned in this article so if that was your point then let me know so I can review them. > https://www.wsj.com/articles/academic-freedom-is-withering-1 https://www.wsj.com/articles/academic-freedom-is-withering-1... I got a paywall so I could only read part of the article. The first part of the article seems to agree with my point that viewpoint discrimination is in fact happening. I didn't get to anything about newspapers before I got the paywall so I don't know what exact this had to do with what I posted. The article seemed quite mainstream to me though. > depending on if you consider george will "mainstream"- he is an establishment conservative which certainly is a dissenting viewpoint at the washington post I am getting a paywall so I couldn't read the article, but it seemed mainstream. Based on what I could gather it sounds like he supports a more fiscally responsible stimulus and to have it targeted to people who actually need it rather than to everybody. Assuming that is the gist of the article then I think that is decently mainstream. I would agree that it is a dissenting viewpoint for the Washington Post though. >not a newspaper, but a national magazine a front page article with a definitively non-mainstream message This article was pretty long so I skimmed it (so if I missed an important detail let me know). It sounds like a mainstream message. Gun ownership and protection of oneself with guns is a mainstream message in the US. Maybe it is a bit non-mainstream since the author is a socialist, but nothing stood out as out of the norm.