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(sorry if this is another one of those "the USA is just as bad", posts, but I hope it's food for thought) It sometimes seems to me that the real difference bet

(sorry if this is another one of those "the USA is just as bad", posts, but I hope it's food for thought) It sometimes seems to me that the real difference between stories like this and what we see in the USA is that in the States we've learned to be more subtle about it. I offer three examples of how USA government disrespect for the rule of law is stifling America: 1. Kelo decision: it seems to have become routine for cities to condemn viable small businesses to grab land for their big voters. For example, see Columbia University in NYC. 2. GM bailout: standard bankruptcy law, determining who should get paid, was thwarted to give unions (i.e., Democrat voting blocks) favored status. This creates disincentive for future investment. 3. Boeing's new plant: the government is trying to block Boeing from moving a plant from Washington to S. Carolina, saying that their action is intended to avoid organized labor (duh), and that's illegal.

johngalt 15y ago
I don't see it as a "USA is bad" post. Quite the opposite. It's a validation of what this country was founded upon. American exceptionalism isn't that people here are incorruptible. It's that we decided wherever possible to avoid creating positions of power and influence. Precisely because it's assumed that those positions will be abused. Making sure that there are explicit limits when those positions are necessary. The fact that we've seen this behavior "even here" should make people realize how right the founding fathers were about the nature of power and governance. Even the idea of having a national standing army was considered risky back in the day.
mapgrep 15y ago
The Kelo decision was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court following an appeal of a decision in the same direction by the Supreme Court of Connecticut. The Boeing lawsuit is being brought in federal court by the National Labor Relations Board and remains undecided. It will be subject to the full appeals process like any other court case. I find it odd you are citing these as "examples of how USA government disrespect... the rule of law." Could you elaborate?
- CWuestefeld 15y ago
  The Kelo decision was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court... The Boeing lawsuit is being brought in federal court by the National Labor Relations Board... The only conclusion I can see in your statements is that the government defines the law, so if the government does it, it must be within the rule of law. But obviously that's a tautology. Kelo is probably the clearest example of the problem: the government itself turns on its ear centuries of common law, and the clear and unambiguous text of the supreme law of the land, the Constitution. The fact that the government has said that this new definition is what must be considered the law doesn't change the fact that (a) it flies in the face of the protections that Americans believed they enjoyed; and (b) created an environment in which we're all less safe in our property. But honestly, I think that when I wrote my initial post, when I said "rule of law", what I was actually thinking was "well-understood principles of property rights and contract law".
  - CWuestefeld 15y ago
    Sorry to reply to myself, but... It occurs to me that the real response is, "what is the law?". Is the law simply what the government (viz, the courts and the police) say it is? Or is the law something deeper, deriving from societal norms, the social contract, and a shared understanding of moral codes?

johngalt 15y ago

I don't see it as a "USA is bad" post. Quite the opposite. It's a validation of what this country was founded upon. American exceptionalism isn't that people here are incorruptible. It's that we decided wherever possible to avoid creating positions of power and influence. Precisely because it's assumed that those positions will be abused. Making sure that there are explicit limits when those positions are necessary. The fact that we've seen this behavior "even here" should make people realize how right the founding fathers were about the nature of power and governance. Even the idea of having a national standing army was considered risky back in the day.

mapgrep 15y ago

The Kelo decision was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court following an appeal of a decision in the same direction by the Supreme Court of Connecticut. The Boeing lawsuit is being brought in federal court by the National Labor Relations Board and remains undecided. It will be subject to the full appeals process like any other court case. I find it odd you are citing these as "examples of how USA government disrespect... the rule of law." Could you elaborate?

CWuestefeld 15y ago
The Kelo decision was decided by the U.S. Supreme Court... The Boeing lawsuit is being brought in federal court by the National Labor Relations Board... The only conclusion I can see in your statements is that the government defines the law, so if the government does it, it must be within the rule of law. But obviously that's a tautology. Kelo is probably the clearest example of the problem: the government itself turns on its ear centuries of common law, and the clear and unambiguous text of the supreme law of the land, the Constitution. The fact that the government has said that this new definition is what must be considered the law doesn't change the fact that (a) it flies in the face of the protections that Americans believed they enjoyed; and (b) created an environment in which we're all less safe in our property. But honestly, I think that when I wrote my initial post, when I said "rule of law", what I was actually thinking was "well-understood principles of property rights and contract law".
- CWuestefeld 15y ago
  Sorry to reply to myself, but... It occurs to me that the real response is, "what is the law?". Is the law simply what the government (viz, the courts and the police) say it is? Or is the law something deeper, deriving from societal norms, the social contract, and a shared understanding of moral codes?