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> Except a car doesn't need a combustion engine to fullfil its purpose, electric engines don't have combustion. This is true, and is why using it as an analogy
by zepto 6y ago
> Except a car doesn't need a combustion engine to fullfil its purpose, electric engines don't have combustion.
This is true, and is why using it as an analogy doesn’t work.
> There is nothing on the iOS experience that requires a file system with POSIX semantics.
Nobody mentioned posix before now. This is moving the goalposts.
> In fact that isn't what app developers using directly, rather Objective-C and Swift abstractions of a file system.
This is not true.
iOS provides all levels of Unix file system access from posix and libc upwards. Many apps and libraries make use of lower level access than Swift and Obj-C apis.
In addition, even those abstractions won’t work without a file system. They depend on concepts like files and directories.
This is why iOS had to have one when it shipped, and why a car power train is not a valid analogy.
- pjmlp 6y ago> iOS, being a Unix, has always supported files and directories in full. It wouldn’t be able to work otherwise. Last time I checked, UNIX and POSIX go hand in hand, no one is moving goalposts here. The existence of a file system has nothing to do with UNIX, unless you now mean only UNIX has filesystems. https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/FileSystemProgrammingGuide/FileSystemOverview/FileSystemOverview.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Fi...
- zepto 6y ago> Last time I checked, UNIX and POSIX go hand in hand, no one is moving goalposts here. Nobody said a POSIX file system was required. The comment says that because iOS is a Unix, therefore it has a filesystem. It doesn’t say anything about it needing to be POSIX. The idea that anyone was saying it needed to be posix was introduced only by you and is moving the goalposts. > The existence of a file system has nothing to do with UNIX, The existence of the iOS filesystem has lot to do with Unix. > unless you now mean only UNIX has filesystems. I’m not sure why you’d think anyone would mean that. Nothing in your comment addresses the problem with your analogy. To recap: iOS provides all levels of Unix file system access from posix and libc upwards. Many apps and libraries make use of lower level access than Swift and Obj-C apis. In addition, even those abstractions won’t work without a file system. They depend on concepts like files and directories. This is why iOS had to have one when it shipped, and why a car power train is not a valid analogy.
- pjmlp 6y agoFile and directions were not an UNIX invention. I would provide you the links to prove that, but I don't want to shatter dreams of UNIX worshiping.
- orhmeh09 6y agoFiles are quite central to Unix and are required by any relevant standards I'm aware of. iOS, deriving from Mac OS X, is a Unix and has always supported its fundamental filesystem abstractions, regardless of whatever the SDK exposes to third-party application programmers.
- pjmlp 6y agoFiles are central to almost any OS with storage of some sort.
- zepto 6y ago> File and directions were not an UNIX invention. Nobody here has said that. Even if they were, it would be irrelevant. > I would provide you the links to prove that, Why would you feel the need to prove something that nobody is disputing, and is irrelevant? > but I don't want to shatter dreams of UNIX worshiping Why would you think anyone here worships Unix?
- pjmlp 6y agoBecause you keep calling having a filesystem being UNIX. As for its relevancy on iOS, "POSIX Has Become Outdated" http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~vatlidak/resources/POSIXmagazine.pdf http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~vatlidak/resources/POSIXmagazine... By the way, the new secure networking APIs don't work with BSD sockets.