5 ms·

The point the parent was making was that someone could simply “buy” the NFT from themselves, and nobody would be the wiser. They more or less just transferred $

The point the parent was making was that someone could simply “buy” the NFT from themselves, and nobody would be the wiser. They more or less just transferred $X between their virtual bank accounts, but we can’t tell that apart from an actual sale. It’s not proof that $X actually changed hands.

anm89 6y ago
If they are paying themselves, why would it matter if they made the money gambling? Also, I don't see the issue with someone buying an asset from themself for some inflated price.
- drcongo 6y ago
  They're not actually buying or selling it though, just making it look like they are.
  - anm89 6y ago
    Who's the victim here? As far as I know it is legal to sell your self digital assets at any price you'd like.
    - tablespoon 6y ago
      > Who's the victim here? As far as I know it is legal to sell your self digital assets at any price you'd like. Lets say I run a lunar land registry like this: https://lunarland.com/ https://lunarland.com/. I have a friend of mine buy a worthless deed from me for $10, then "sell" it to himself for $10,000. Now $10,000 is the "market price." I then use that transaction as "evidence" to hype the idea that lunar land deeds are serious things, part a growing market, good investment opportunity, etc. In the ensuing tulip mania, I pocket a pretty penny selling a lot more worthless deeds to lunar land. The victims are the people convinced my misleading hype to invest in them. Now I'm not claiming something like is actually happening here, but the whole thing is fishy and I think it's a serious possibility to be considered.
    - grok22 6y ago
      The next person who decides to buy from this person based on it's previous "perceived" improvement in value....
    - notyourday 6y ago
      > Who's the victim here? As far as I know it is legal to sell your self digital assets at any price you'd like. It is. But if you register it as a sale, you get to pay taxes on "the profit".
- curryst 6y ago
  The accusation (I don't know if it's true, I know next to nothing about NFTs) is that person A buys and NFT for $10,000. Because NFTs are online, and likely pseudonymous, they proceed to list it for sale, and then bid on it to drive the price up to $50,000. Person A still owns it, but to the rest of the world if looks like person B bought it. They then proceed to relist, pump up the price to $100k, and buy it themselves. To the rest of the world, it looks like the value of this NFT grew by 2 orders of magnitude in a week. In reality, that person is leveraging the pseudonymous nature to just make it appear that way, in hopes that when they list it for $200k, someone else will actually buy it. They cleared $190k for making a couple of garbage auctions.
joshspankit 6y ago
Like, they still need to eat the costs: transaction fee, percentage to the artist (if that’s configured on the platform), and any costs to convert/move currency. As well: I can buy my $200k house from myself for $5m, but I still need to get the $5m. At that level maybe I can game the system (owning 5 properties on that block and selling when the “neighbourhood is valuable”), but this kind of system gaming is as old as money itself.
- qeternity 6y ago
  This is the case with all wash trading. It only works if you can create a greater fool in the process (net of fees). However wash trading is rampant in crypto.

anm89 6y ago

If they are paying themselves, why would it matter if they made the money gambling? Also, I don't see the issue with someone buying an asset from themself for some inflated price.

drcongo 6y ago
They're not actually buying or selling it though, just making it look like they are.
- anm89 6y ago
  Who's the victim here? As far as I know it is legal to sell your self digital assets at any price you'd like.
  - tablespoon 6y ago
    > Who's the victim here? As far as I know it is legal to sell your self digital assets at any price you'd like. Lets say I run a lunar land registry like this: https://lunarland.com/ https://lunarland.com/. I have a friend of mine buy a worthless deed from me for $10, then "sell" it to himself for $10,000. Now $10,000 is the "market price." I then use that transaction as "evidence" to hype the idea that lunar land deeds are serious things, part a growing market, good investment opportunity, etc. In the ensuing tulip mania, I pocket a pretty penny selling a lot more worthless deeds to lunar land. The victims are the people convinced my misleading hype to invest in them. Now I'm not claiming something like is actually happening here, but the whole thing is fishy and I think it's a serious possibility to be considered.
  - grok22 6y ago
    The next person who decides to buy from this person based on it's previous "perceived" improvement in value....
  - notyourday 6y ago
    > Who's the victim here? As far as I know it is legal to sell your self digital assets at any price you'd like. It is. But if you register it as a sale, you get to pay taxes on "the profit".
curryst 6y ago
The accusation (I don't know if it's true, I know next to nothing about NFTs) is that person A buys and NFT for $10,000. Because NFTs are online, and likely pseudonymous, they proceed to list it for sale, and then bid on it to drive the price up to $50,000. Person A still owns it, but to the rest of the world if looks like person B bought it. They then proceed to relist, pump up the price to $100k, and buy it themselves. To the rest of the world, it looks like the value of this NFT grew by 2 orders of magnitude in a week. In reality, that person is leveraging the pseudonymous nature to just make it appear that way, in hopes that when they list it for $200k, someone else will actually buy it. They cleared $190k for making a couple of garbage auctions.

joshspankit 6y ago

Like, they still need to eat the costs: transaction fee, percentage to the artist (if that’s configured on the platform), and any costs to convert/move currency. As well: I can buy my $200k house from myself for $5m, but I still need to get the $5m. At that level maybe I can game the system (owning 5 properties on that block and selling when the “neighbourhood is valuable”), but this kind of system gaming is as old as money itself.

qeternity 6y ago
This is the case with all wash trading. It only works if you can create a greater fool in the process (net of fees). However wash trading is rampant in crypto.