6 ms·

Choose your fighter wisely: [ ] ELECTRIC CAR GOOD [ ] ELECTRICITY BAD

by hfsp 6y ago

0goel0 6y ago
This is a hot garbage of a take. No one is saying "ELECTRICITY BAD", but futile uses of electricity (most of which is derived from extremely polluting fossil fuels[1]) is bad. [1] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/images/outlet-graph-large.jpg https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/images/outle...
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  The vast majority of electrical generation coming online is renewables. The grid is rapidly becoming cleaner, something they does not occur with fossil burning machinery (which burns fossil fuels for its entire lifetime). Electrify everything (EVs, heat pumps, water heating, etc), and we’ll arrive at 100% clean generation and consumption around the same time.
  - 0goel0 6y ago
    This is verifiably false - https://i.imgur.com/2M67mwx.png https://i.imgur.com/2M67mwx.png Source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 ("Renewables account for most new U.S. electricity generating capacity in 2021", January 2021) https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c.png https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c... https://www.yahoo.com/now/renewables-dominate-u-power-capacity-150000083.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/renewables-dominate-u-power-capaci... ("Renewables To Dominate New U.S. Power Capacity In 2021") https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/us-renewable-pipeline-poised-to-add-172-5-gw-through-2024-61902543 https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights... ("US renewable pipeline poised to add 172.5 GW through 2024") https://www.snl.com/articles/406456174.png https://www.snl.com/articles/406456174.png https://www.snl.com/articles/406456177.png https://www.snl.com/articles/406456177.png
      - merdadicapra 6y ago
        > https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 ("Renewables account for most new U.S. electricity generating capacity in 2021", January 2021) emphasis on the word new > https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c.png https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c... emphasis on "to come online fro Jan 2021 to Dec 2021" > https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights... ("US renewable pipeline poised to add 172.5 GW through 2024") From the same article: Solar power in 2019 accounted for 1.8% of U.S. utility-scale generating capacity At the end of 2019, the United States had about 1,100,546 MW—or 1.1 billion kilowatts (kW)—of total utility-scale electricity generating capacity and about 23 million kW of small-scale solar photovoltaic electricity generating capacity from 23 to 172 it's only 7.5 times more you need to increase production 15 times more to reach the current total output.
    - allannienhuis 6y ago
      Perhaps you misinterpreted 'coming online'? The statement refers to NEW energy generation, with the implication that renewable/green energy sources will eventually outpace fossil fuels as old plants are decommissioned and alternatives come online for baseload (batteries/other storage).
      - ravi-delia 6y ago
        It's also worth noting that the share of energy generated by fossil fuels can continue growing without their respective share of capacity growing, because as power demand grows we don't just build new plants for every additional watt. Instead, the ones that already exist increase their output. So though most of the new capacity is renewable, even for a bit into the future the absolute amount of power generated by fossil fuels will likely increase.
- hfsp 6y ago
  Sorry to challenge your fossil fuels bad take. The grid, and thus electric cars run on fossil fuel. Contrary to your belief, expensive unereliables such as solar, and wind cannot run the grid by definition. Solar and wind are great, when they are up. Case in point: Germany. Shut down carbon free, emission free, reliable, cheap, safe nuclear. Subsidize, install solar, wind. Find out solar & wind are unreliable. Fire up new coal power plants. Increase emissions due to constant ramp up and ramp down of carbon plants (similar to stop and go traffic on the highway). Increase cost. https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/10/is-germany-making-too-much-renewable-energy/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/10/is-germany-making-too-m...
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    > The grid, and thus electric cars run on fossil fuel. Contrary to your belief, expensive unereliables such as solar, and wind cannot run the grid by definition. Solar and wind are great, when they are up. Solar and wind are the cheapest electrical generation technologies, even when backed by battery storage [1]. Not that Germany didn't misstep by shuttering nuclear for coal, but they also have transmission challenges between high renewable potential geographies and load centers [2]. [1] https://www.lazard.com/media/451419/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-140.pdf https://www.lazard.com/media/451419/lazards-levelized-cost-o... [2] https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-stressed-grid-is-causing-trouble-across-europe https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-stress...
    - hfsp 6y ago
      >even when backed by battery storage We have seconds of grid battery storage in the US. >Solar and wind are the cheapest electrical generation technologies What do you think happens 90% of the time when solar & wind are not available in sufficient capacity? People shut off their lights, laundry machine, and heater/air conditioning?
      - ravi-delia 6y ago
        We absolutely do have far too little grid battery in the US, and we haven't installed enough solar to provide power for most of the day. How do you get from there to 'and therefore we should give up on making more'? The person you replied to linked to something demonstrating that solar is cheap even when counting the cost of sufficient battery storage. Perhaps you disagree with that assessment? If so, the fact that sufficient green power hasn't been built isn't an argument against building more.

Choose your fighter wisely: [ ] ELECTRIC CAR GOOD [ ] ELECTRICITY BAD

by hfsp 6y ago

Choose your fighter wisely: [ ] ELECTRIC CAR GOOD [ ] ELECTRICITY BAD

This is a hot garbage of a take. No one is saying "ELECTRICITY BAD", but futile uses of electricity (most of which is derived from extremely polluting fossil fuels[1]) is bad. [1] https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/images/outlet-graph-large.jpg https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/images/outle...

toomuchtodo 6y ago
The vast majority of electrical generation coming online is renewables. The grid is rapidly becoming cleaner, something they does not occur with fossil burning machinery (which burns fossil fuels for its entire lifetime). Electrify everything (EVs, heat pumps, water heating, etc), and we’ll arrive at 100% clean generation and consumption around the same time.
- 0goel0 6y ago
  This is verifiably false - https://i.imgur.com/2M67mwx.png https://i.imgur.com/2M67mwx.png Source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 ("Renewables account for most new U.S. electricity generating capacity in 2021", January 2021) https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c.png https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c... https://www.yahoo.com/now/renewables-dominate-u-power-capacity-150000083.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/renewables-dominate-u-power-capaci... ("Renewables To Dominate New U.S. Power Capacity In 2021") https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/us-renewable-pipeline-poised-to-add-172-5-gw-through-2024-61902543 https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights... ("US renewable pipeline poised to add 172.5 GW through 2024") https://www.snl.com/articles/406456174.png https://www.snl.com/articles/406456174.png https://www.snl.com/articles/406456177.png https://www.snl.com/articles/406456177.png
    - merdadicapra 6y ago
      > https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 ("Renewables account for most new U.S. electricity generating capacity in 2021", January 2021) emphasis on the word new > https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c.png https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/images/figure_6_01_c... emphasis on "to come online fro Jan 2021 to Dec 2021" > https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights... ("US renewable pipeline poised to add 172.5 GW through 2024") From the same article: Solar power in 2019 accounted for 1.8% of U.S. utility-scale generating capacity At the end of 2019, the United States had about 1,100,546 MW—or 1.1 billion kilowatts (kW)—of total utility-scale electricity generating capacity and about 23 million kW of small-scale solar photovoltaic electricity generating capacity from 23 to 172 it's only 7.5 times more you need to increase production 15 times more to reach the current total output.
  - allannienhuis 6y ago
    Perhaps you misinterpreted 'coming online'? The statement refers to NEW energy generation, with the implication that renewable/green energy sources will eventually outpace fossil fuels as old plants are decommissioned and alternatives come online for baseload (batteries/other storage).
    - ravi-delia 6y ago
      It's also worth noting that the share of energy generated by fossil fuels can continue growing without their respective share of capacity growing, because as power demand grows we don't just build new plants for every additional watt. Instead, the ones that already exist increase their output. So though most of the new capacity is renewable, even for a bit into the future the absolute amount of power generated by fossil fuels will likely increase.
hfsp 6y ago
Sorry to challenge your fossil fuels bad take. The grid, and thus electric cars run on fossil fuel. Contrary to your belief, expensive unereliables such as solar, and wind cannot run the grid by definition. Solar and wind are great, when they are up. Case in point: Germany. Shut down carbon free, emission free, reliable, cheap, safe nuclear. Subsidize, install solar, wind. Find out solar & wind are unreliable. Fire up new coal power plants. Increase emissions due to constant ramp up and ramp down of carbon plants (similar to stop and go traffic on the highway). Increase cost. https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/10/is-germany-making-too-much-renewable-energy/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/10/is-germany-making-too-m...
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  > The grid, and thus electric cars run on fossil fuel. Contrary to your belief, expensive unereliables such as solar, and wind cannot run the grid by definition. Solar and wind are great, when they are up. Solar and wind are the cheapest electrical generation technologies, even when backed by battery storage [1]. Not that Germany didn't misstep by shuttering nuclear for coal, but they also have transmission challenges between high renewable potential geographies and load centers [2]. [1] https://www.lazard.com/media/451419/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-140.pdf https://www.lazard.com/media/451419/lazards-levelized-cost-o... [2] https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-stressed-grid-is-causing-trouble-across-europe https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/germanys-stress...
  - hfsp 6y ago
    >even when backed by battery storage We have seconds of grid battery storage in the US. >Solar and wind are the cheapest electrical generation technologies What do you think happens 90% of the time when solar & wind are not available in sufficient capacity? People shut off their lights, laundry machine, and heater/air conditioning?
    - ravi-delia 6y ago
      We absolutely do have far too little grid battery in the US, and we haven't installed enough solar to provide power for most of the day. How do you get from there to 'and therefore we should give up on making more'? The person you replied to linked to something demonstrating that solar is cheap even when counting the cost of sufficient battery storage. Perhaps you disagree with that assessment? If so, the fact that sufficient green power hasn't been built isn't an argument against building more.