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Fellow former-poor here. It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life. And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Most o

Fellow former-poor here. It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life. And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Most of the people I work with graduated from school as guaranteed millionaires. I hear things get said by people that are so far from the orbit of my reality and I cringe. Reading the article was really eye opening for me because I hadn't thought of all of the life skills that I've picked up simply as a result of being poor. It even affects how I think about my new-found wealth. I spend an enormous amount of money on tools and equipment. I'm the one helping all of my friends build, move or fix things.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
> And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Most of the people I work with graduated from school as guaranteed millionaires. This is surprising to me. I’m also a former poor. A lot of people I work with in tech come from generally “normal” backgrounds. Middle to lower class (in excluding h1b and green card holders). It just turned out for them that their passion and hobby (computers) ended up being a great career. Now things are probably different for younger generations now that the secret is out about P90 software salaries. Good thing I got in while they were still taking nobodies.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  Ha ha, you and me too. Grew up in a single-parent home where mom was a "secretary" (remember that?). I've been a blue-collar programmer (not Software Engineer) my entire career. I think they're finally on to me though and I may have to skip out soon. Code reviews, unit tests and Scrum are not my thing anyway. ;-)
- ryandrake 6y ago
  > Good thing I got in while they were still taking nobodies. I feel the same way! I look around at my younger peers with such impressive pedigrees: Stanford, Ivy League, PhD’s, former founders, etc. and I think “wow, I’d never even get my foot in the door if I were entering today!
  - busterarm 6y ago
    Oh I'm not much different than you and the parent either. I got in before the door closed for sure. I just started late so the younger ones are my peers.
- robotnikman 6y ago
  Maybe its just the FAANG companies that are hiring only those from prestigious universities? I still hope I can land a decent software engineering position someday without such a degree, even if its not at a FAANG company and doesnt pay as well
u678u 6y ago
> It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life. Shadow really though? I'm super glad everything came through my own work, I'd hate if my parents gave me anything. I hate spending any money, to me that is just sensible though not a problem.
- sixstringtheory 6y ago
  I’m also very pleased with the results I seem to have wrought myself (with help of course), but I always notice that I’m a bit behind the curve compared to people getting ahead in the workforce, adulting with home refinancing or retirement, entering Ivy league direct from high school, or in high school, the students that seemed to know which classes to take, or what AP was (I took 3 while my peers averaged 6-7 AP courses). Same for sports. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s noticeable when you have parents that can’t help you and while I’m very capable of learning all of these things on my own, and I have, I’m no match for folks basically speed-leveling early in life. Also wrt money, I always hated spending it, and really hated debt/interest. Now I find myself very willing to spend money on actually useful things like gear and tools, lest the power of money, or my ability to earn it, diminishes in the future.
  - u678u 6y ago
    Yeah I could never afford to do a Masters or PhD where those people now seem to be doing extra well.
  - robotnikman 6y ago
    >but it’s noticeable when you have parents that can’t help you and while I’m very capable of learning all of these things on my own, and I have, I’m no match for folks basically speed-leveling early in life I definitely feel on this one. I had to learn a lot of those things on my own as well
- busterarm 6y ago
  Shadow because it's a source of stress that doesn't really go away no matter how much your future circumstances change. You'd have to rewire your whole way of looking at the world. That's some serious therapy.
sixstringtheory 6y ago
> I spend an enormous amount of money on tools and equipment. I'm the one helping all of my friends build, move or fix things. I grew up lower middle class but my dad grew up poor. I think a lot of his practices still rubbed off onto me, sounds a lot like what you describe. We have a friend who grew up comfortably and have noticed how that influenced their more laissez-faire approach to life. E.g. when we help them move, we do most of the work. There’s a sort of “everything will work out” mentality on their part, whereas I’m constantly worrying about how it’s all going to fall apart. It’s not really good or bad, though. I almost envy the carefree attitude. Childhood trauma tends to make people try to control things more as adults, and I wish I didn’t stress things so much. My wife also grew up more “securely” and we talk a lot about how it informs our worldview differently. Thankfully it doesn’t cause problems though, it’s just interesting. I think we’re just different enough to make a great team. And as others mentioned, I value the life skills I gained by my upbringing and early start on working for myself. I can build and fix things, and cook really well. Gonna be just fine, I think. Happy building, busterarm!
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. If you make the assumption that HN is vaguely representative of the software industry and then looking at the reception that all the comments that stop short of saying "luck is the primary factor of success" are getting it seems pretty obvious why nobody talks about it.
- busterarm 6y ago
  I think you're exactly correct.
bozzcl 6y ago
> And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Man, I remember some of the business courses I took, as well as the reports and presentations we did after our internships. So many people's thoughts and conclusions read basically as "I learned that the poor are people too". This was at one of the top universities in my home country. It's reasonable to expect these people would be industry leaders eventually. The lack of empathy they showed was appalling. All that being said, I'm glad you got through the challenges in your early life. I wish we were more tolerant about poorness, because sharing experiences like yours could definitely teach and encourage other kids to fight for a better quality of life. Having more people with your experience in places of power could also help bring a little more empathy to society. We need it badly.
robotnikman 6y ago
As someone who also grew up in a poorer family I can relate as well, both the disconnect from people in the industry I've talked to and the skills I picked up growing up. My dad had a bunch of tools growing up which he used to do household repairs and repairs on the cars, I remember for the longest time my parents driving an old station wagon with a lot of duct tape holding things together or covering leaks and the air conditioning not working. I still try to repair things on my own if I can, while some people I know just go hire someone on Handy or something to fix things for them.
- tasuki 6y ago
  I grew up upper middle class, our car had no air conditioning, my father was doing car repairs himself. I'm from Eastern Europe, a relatively wealthy country compared to much of the rest of the world.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago

> And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Most of the people I work with graduated from school as guaranteed millionaires. This is surprising to me. I’m also a former poor. A lot of people I work with in tech come from generally “normal” backgrounds. Middle to lower class (in excluding h1b and green card holders). It just turned out for them that their passion and hobby (computers) ended up being a great career. Now things are probably different for younger generations now that the secret is out about P90 software salaries. Good thing I got in while they were still taking nobodies.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
Ha ha, you and me too. Grew up in a single-parent home where mom was a "secretary" (remember that?). I've been a blue-collar programmer (not Software Engineer) my entire career. I think they're finally on to me though and I may have to skip out soon. Code reviews, unit tests and Scrum are not my thing anyway. ;-)
ryandrake 6y ago
> Good thing I got in while they were still taking nobodies. I feel the same way! I look around at my younger peers with such impressive pedigrees: Stanford, Ivy League, PhD’s, former founders, etc. and I think “wow, I’d never even get my foot in the door if I were entering today!
- busterarm 6y ago
  Oh I'm not much different than you and the parent either. I got in before the door closed for sure. I just started late so the younger ones are my peers.
robotnikman 6y ago
Maybe its just the FAANG companies that are hiring only those from prestigious universities? I still hope I can land a decent software engineering position someday without such a degree, even if its not at a FAANG company and doesnt pay as well

u678u 6y ago

> It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life. Shadow really though? I'm super glad everything came through my own work, I'd hate if my parents gave me anything. I hate spending any money, to me that is just sensible though not a problem.

sixstringtheory 6y ago
I’m also very pleased with the results I seem to have wrought myself (with help of course), but I always notice that I’m a bit behind the curve compared to people getting ahead in the workforce, adulting with home refinancing or retirement, entering Ivy league direct from high school, or in high school, the students that seemed to know which classes to take, or what AP was (I took 3 while my peers averaged 6-7 AP courses). Same for sports. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s noticeable when you have parents that can’t help you and while I’m very capable of learning all of these things on my own, and I have, I’m no match for folks basically speed-leveling early in life. Also wrt money, I always hated spending it, and really hated debt/interest. Now I find myself very willing to spend money on actually useful things like gear and tools, lest the power of money, or my ability to earn it, diminishes in the future.
- u678u 6y ago
  Yeah I could never afford to do a Masters or PhD where those people now seem to be doing extra well.
- robotnikman 6y ago
  >but it’s noticeable when you have parents that can’t help you and while I’m very capable of learning all of these things on my own, and I have, I’m no match for folks basically speed-leveling early in life I definitely feel on this one. I had to learn a lot of those things on my own as well
busterarm 6y ago
Shadow because it's a source of stress that doesn't really go away no matter how much your future circumstances change. You'd have to rewire your whole way of looking at the world. That's some serious therapy.

sixstringtheory 6y ago

> I spend an enormous amount of money on tools and equipment. I'm the one helping all of my friends build, move or fix things. I grew up lower middle class but my dad grew up poor. I think a lot of his practices still rubbed off onto me, sounds a lot like what you describe. We have a friend who grew up comfortably and have noticed how that influenced their more laissez-faire approach to life. E.g. when we help them move, we do most of the work. There’s a sort of “everything will work out” mentality on their part, whereas I’m constantly worrying about how it’s all going to fall apart. It’s not really good or bad, though. I almost envy the carefree attitude. Childhood trauma tends to make people try to control things more as adults, and I wish I didn’t stress things so much. My wife also grew up more “securely” and we talk a lot about how it informs our worldview differently. Thankfully it doesn’t cause problems though, it’s just interesting. I think we’re just different enough to make a great team. And as others mentioned, I value the life skills I gained by my upbringing and early start on working for myself. I can build and fix things, and cook really well. Gonna be just fine, I think. Happy building, busterarm!

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. If you make the assumption that HN is vaguely representative of the software industry and then looking at the reception that all the comments that stop short of saying "luck is the primary factor of success" are getting it seems pretty obvious why nobody talks about it.

busterarm 6y ago
I think you're exactly correct.

bozzcl 6y ago

> And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Man, I remember some of the business courses I took, as well as the reports and presentations we did after our internships. So many people's thoughts and conclusions read basically as "I learned that the poor are people too". This was at one of the top universities in my home country. It's reasonable to expect these people would be industry leaders eventually. The lack of empathy they showed was appalling. All that being said, I'm glad you got through the challenges in your early life. I wish we were more tolerant about poorness, because sharing experiences like yours could definitely teach and encourage other kids to fight for a better quality of life. Having more people with your experience in places of power could also help bring a little more empathy to society. We need it badly.

robotnikman 6y ago

As someone who also grew up in a poorer family I can relate as well, both the disconnect from people in the industry I've talked to and the skills I picked up growing up. My dad had a bunch of tools growing up which he used to do household repairs and repairs on the cars, I remember for the longest time my parents driving an old station wagon with a lot of duct tape holding things together or covering leaks and the air conditioning not working. I still try to repair things on my own if I can, while some people I know just go hire someone on Handy or something to fix things for them.

tasuki 6y ago
I grew up upper middle class, our car had no air conditioning, my father was doing car repairs himself. I'm from Eastern Europe, a relatively wealthy country compared to much of the rest of the world.