5 ms·

> > If you, or the company, is in California go ahead and sign it. Non-competes are not valid or enforceable in the state of California. > Making an agreement

by occz 6y ago

> > If you, or the company, is in California go ahead and sign it. Non-competes are not valid or enforceable in the state of California. > Making an agreement you have no intention of adhering to is not ethical, regardless of whether the law backs you up or not. Non-compete clauses are unethical. Adding non-enforceable clauses is unethical. Both of the aforementioned points are made worse by the fact that the companies generally have more leverage + more ability to retain legal counsel, make it a lot worse, because that means that they most certainly knowingly do this. I wouldn't even excuse myself for signing something like this while knowing of its non-enforceability.

WalterBright 6y ago
> Non-compete clauses are unethical. Adding non-enforceable clauses is unethical. Neither are unethical, as neither are misrepresentations or dishonest. There's no reason you cannot agree to terms that are unenforceable. People do it all the time. You do, too. The cost of breaking your word is not legal action, but the other party will consider you dishonorable. > Both of the aforementioned points are made worse by the fact that the companies generally have more leverage + more ability to retain legal counsel, make it a lot worse, because that means that they most certainly knowingly do this. If you're negotiating for a 6 figure job, you can afford $400 to have a lawyer review your contract. Keep in mind that the fact that you are offered more than minimum wage means you do have leverage. Even if you can't afford a lawyer, you can ask on HN :-) or at least google the clauses.
- akarma 6y ago
  I don't know how much experience you have with dealing with companies' contracts. If you talk to a FAANG company about this and you aren't some famous rockstar engineer, they're going to just tell you that they won't remove any clauses. What then? Do you pass up a job offer...?
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    The ones I've done contracts with were all willing to negotiate. Have you tried it?

by occz 6y ago

WalterBright 6y ago

> Non-compete clauses are unethical. Adding non-enforceable clauses is unethical. Neither are unethical, as neither are misrepresentations or dishonest. There's no reason you cannot agree to terms that are unenforceable. People do it all the time. You do, too. The cost of breaking your word is not legal action, but the other party will consider you dishonorable. > Both of the aforementioned points are made worse by the fact that the companies generally have more leverage + more ability to retain legal counsel, make it a lot worse, because that means that they most certainly knowingly do this. If you're negotiating for a 6 figure job, you can afford $400 to have a lawyer review your contract. Keep in mind that the fact that you are offered more than minimum wage means you do have leverage. Even if you can't afford a lawyer, you can ask on HN :-) or at least google the clauses.

akarma 6y ago
I don't know how much experience you have with dealing with companies' contracts. If you talk to a FAANG company about this and you aren't some famous rockstar engineer, they're going to just tell you that they won't remove any clauses. What then? Do you pass up a job offer...?
- WalterBright 6y ago
  The ones I've done contracts with were all willing to negotiate. Have you tried it?