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iOS, being a Unix, has always supported files and directories in full. It wouldn’t be able to work otherwise.

by orhmeh09 6y ago

pjmlp 6y ago
It doesn't matter, when they aren't surfaced that way to the user.
- macintux 6y ago
  That’s like saying ignition doesn’t matter for an internal combustion engine because it isn’t surfaced to the user.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Indeed, that is why cars are changing to electric and for the user the driving experience is mostly unchanged.
    - zepto 6y ago
      > ignition doesn’t matter for an internal combustion engine You said ‘indeed’ which makes it look like you are saying this is true? I think you may be confusing the ignition switch or key, with the ignition of fuel in the engine. The ignition of fuel is absolutely necessary for internal combustion engines, just as a full file system was always necessary for iOS.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Except a car doesn't need a combustion engine to fullfil its purpose, electric engines don't have combustion. There is nothing on the iOS experience that requires a file system with POSIX semantics. In fact that isn't what app developers using directly, rather Objective-C and Swift abstractions of a file system.
        zepto 6y ago
        > Except a car doesn't need a combustion engine to fullfil its purpose, electric engines don't have combustion. This is true, and is why using it as an analogy doesn’t work. > There is nothing on the iOS experience that requires a file system with POSIX semantics. Nobody mentioned posix before now. This is moving the goalposts. > In fact that isn't what app developers using directly, rather Objective-C and Swift abstractions of a file system. This is not true. iOS provides all levels of Unix file system access from posix and libc upwards. Many apps and libraries make use of lower level access than Swift and Obj-C apis. In addition, even those abstractions won’t work without a file system. They depend on concepts like files and directories. This is why iOS had to have one when it shipped, and why a car power train is not a valid analogy.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        > iOS, being a Unix, has always supported files and directories in full. It wouldn’t be able to work otherwise. Last time I checked, UNIX and POSIX go hand in hand, no one is moving goalposts here. The existence of a file system has nothing to do with UNIX, unless you now mean only UNIX has filesystems. https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/FileSystemProgrammingGuide/FileSystemOverview/FileSystemOverview.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Fi...
        zepto 6y ago
        > Last time I checked, UNIX and POSIX go hand in hand, no one is moving goalposts here. Nobody said a POSIX file system was required. The comment says that because iOS is a Unix, therefore it has a filesystem. It doesn’t say anything about it needing to be POSIX. The idea that anyone was saying it needed to be posix was introduced only by you and is moving the goalposts. > The existence of a file system has nothing to do with UNIX, The existence of the iOS filesystem has lot to do with Unix. > unless you now mean only UNIX has filesystems. I’m not sure why you’d think anyone would mean that. Nothing in your comment addresses the problem with your analogy. To recap: iOS provides all levels of Unix file system access from posix and libc upwards. Many apps and libraries make use of lower level access than Swift and Obj-C apis. In addition, even those abstractions won’t work without a file system. They depend on concepts like files and directories. This is why iOS had to have one when it shipped, and why a car power train is not a valid analogy.

iOS, being a Unix, has always supported files and directories in full. It wouldn’t be able to work otherwise.

pjmlp 6y ago

It doesn't matter, when they aren't surfaced that way to the user.

macintux 6y ago
That’s like saying ignition doesn’t matter for an internal combustion engine because it isn’t surfaced to the user.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Indeed, that is why cars are changing to electric and for the user the driving experience is mostly unchanged.
  - zepto 6y ago
    > ignition doesn’t matter for an internal combustion engine You said ‘indeed’ which makes it look like you are saying this is true? I think you may be confusing the ignition switch or key, with the ignition of fuel in the engine. The ignition of fuel is absolutely necessary for internal combustion engines, just as a full file system was always necessary for iOS.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Except a car doesn't need a combustion engine to fullfil its purpose, electric engines don't have combustion. There is nothing on the iOS experience that requires a file system with POSIX semantics. In fact that isn't what app developers using directly, rather Objective-C and Swift abstractions of a file system.
      - zepto 6y ago
        > Except a car doesn't need a combustion engine to fullfil its purpose, electric engines don't have combustion. This is true, and is why using it as an analogy doesn’t work. > There is nothing on the iOS experience that requires a file system with POSIX semantics. Nobody mentioned posix before now. This is moving the goalposts. > In fact that isn't what app developers using directly, rather Objective-C and Swift abstractions of a file system. This is not true. iOS provides all levels of Unix file system access from posix and libc upwards. Many apps and libraries make use of lower level access than Swift and Obj-C apis. In addition, even those abstractions won’t work without a file system. They depend on concepts like files and directories. This is why iOS had to have one when it shipped, and why a car power train is not a valid analogy.
        pjmlp 6y ago
        > iOS, being a Unix, has always supported files and directories in full. It wouldn’t be able to work otherwise. Last time I checked, UNIX and POSIX go hand in hand, no one is moving goalposts here. The existence of a file system has nothing to do with UNIX, unless you now mean only UNIX has filesystems. https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/FileSystemProgrammingGuide/FileSystemOverview/FileSystemOverview.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Fi...
        zepto 6y ago
        > Last time I checked, UNIX and POSIX go hand in hand, no one is moving goalposts here. Nobody said a POSIX file system was required. The comment says that because iOS is a Unix, therefore it has a filesystem. It doesn’t say anything about it needing to be POSIX. The idea that anyone was saying it needed to be posix was introduced only by you and is moving the goalposts. > The existence of a file system has nothing to do with UNIX, The existence of the iOS filesystem has lot to do with Unix. > unless you now mean only UNIX has filesystems. I’m not sure why you’d think anyone would mean that. Nothing in your comment addresses the problem with your analogy. To recap: iOS provides all levels of Unix file system access from posix and libc upwards. Many apps and libraries make use of lower level access than Swift and Obj-C apis. In addition, even those abstractions won’t work without a file system. They depend on concepts like files and directories. This is why iOS had to have one when it shipped, and why a car power train is not a valid analogy.