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Here are some quotes of people complaining about "youngsters these days". 1. The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of n

Here are some quotes of people complaining about "youngsters these days". 1. The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress. 2. The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize over their teachers 3. I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint #1 was written in the 13th century, #2 in the 5th century BC and #3 in the 8th century BC. Old people always think young people are worse than ever. I say this not to invalidate your feelings of frustration with how people are coding these days compared to the good old days. But ask yourself if your skills haven't improved in that time. Bugs that you would miss 10 years ago are now obvious to you. Also, there's just a lot more code out there than there used to be, judging by number of repos. The friction to put something into a public repository is lower than ever. That gets us some gems that might not have existed otherwise, but also some turds. Rest assured that 10 years from now, devs will be talking about the good old days of today and how much better it was compared to 2030.

AlchemistCamp 6y ago
This is a very generic ramble to (potentially) derail the thread with. I'm more interested in people's answers to the actual question the OP asked.
badsectoracula 6y ago
OP's comment has nothing to do with "youngsters these days" but with how code is nowadays vs at the past. Unlike humans, there are changes in how code is produced, what it targets, where it runs, the motivations behind writing it, etc. E.g. to expand on what others have mentioned, having to target Windows on a desktop PC with regular monitor at around 800x600 or at most 1024x768 resolution and a mouse for English is a bit different than having to target any desktop OS, any tablet OS, any mobile OS, perhaps also provide a web-based version, with a UI that works under resolutions ranging from ~1366x768 up to ~5120x2880 on monitor sizes ranging from 5" to 55" (or above) and inputs handling that includes keyboard, mouse, touchscreens, TV remotes, etc while having support for unicode, multiple languages, emojis, etc. Even with the exact same people (which certainly isn't the case) writing the code, the latter is going to have much higher likelihood for bugs and other issues to crop up.
muzani 6y ago
This misses the mark, for reasons I can't see why. Maybe let's compare code 8 years ago to 4 years ago to today. I did Android dev. 8 years ago it was a nightmare. To download an image, you had to build your own async thread, transfer the bits, resize the image, and then make sure there aren't any memory leaks and keep it small enough that it doesn't suck up all the RAM and crash the device. 4 years ago, it was easy. Just plug in the URL, and where you want it to go and it'll handle all the above + caching. Today we have Android Jetpack. Now MVVM architecture is the default. Everything is cleanly handled - we make sure that there's no memory leak when someone makes a call within the half second it takes to download the image. But for some reason, code is more tiresome to write. A single page used to be 2-3 files, now it's easily 12 files. Trying to debug a problem means sifting through those parts. The fact that we can code a full feature in 5 min means that very little thought is going into whether this feature is necessary, has side effects, or the responsibilities of the different parts. Budgets have gone up too, and now you can expect to deal with a freelancer from Qatar or Ukraine or whatever who builds a piece just fine, but nobody remembers how it works or whether this part was built correctly. I'd say that the individual parts work fine but as a whole, they go together poorly.
yesenadam 6y ago
> #1 was written in the 13th century, #2 in the 5th century BC and #3 in the 8th century BC. Not true. These all appear to be fake quotes. Apparently #1 are not words of Peter the Hermit, #2 not words of Socrates/Plato, #3 not found in Hesiod. #2 seems to be from 1907.[0] There are claims on the web it's a paraphrase of a speech of Justice in Aristophanes' comedy The Clouds[1], but I don't see much resemblance. This[2] page contains all 3 quotes, #2 prefaced by "You may have seen this quote, often (apparently inaccurately) attributed to Socrates", then claims the other two quotes are real. But he links to a 2004 discussion page[3], which under quote #1 says "It should be noted that the attribution of this quote to Peter the Hermit is as shaky as the attribution of the other quote to Socrates." [0] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/ [1] http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0241:card%3D961 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19... [2] https://nickfalkner.com/2013/04/21/the-kids-are-alright-within-statistical-error/ https://nickfalkner.com/2013/04/21/the-kids-are-alright-with... [3] http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=398104 http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=398104 https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates#Misattributed https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates#Misattributed

AlchemistCamp 6y ago

This is a very generic ramble to (potentially) derail the thread with. I'm more interested in people's answers to the actual question the OP asked.

badsectoracula 6y ago

OP's comment has nothing to do with "youngsters these days" but with how code is nowadays vs at the past. Unlike humans, there are changes in how code is produced, what it targets, where it runs, the motivations behind writing it, etc. E.g. to expand on what others have mentioned, having to target Windows on a desktop PC with regular monitor at around 800x600 or at most 1024x768 resolution and a mouse for English is a bit different than having to target any desktop OS, any tablet OS, any mobile OS, perhaps also provide a web-based version, with a UI that works under resolutions ranging from ~1366x768 up to ~5120x2880 on monitor sizes ranging from 5" to 55" (or above) and inputs handling that includes keyboard, mouse, touchscreens, TV remotes, etc while having support for unicode, multiple languages, emojis, etc. Even with the exact same people (which certainly isn't the case) writing the code, the latter is going to have much higher likelihood for bugs and other issues to crop up.

muzani 6y ago

This misses the mark, for reasons I can't see why. Maybe let's compare code 8 years ago to 4 years ago to today. I did Android dev. 8 years ago it was a nightmare. To download an image, you had to build your own async thread, transfer the bits, resize the image, and then make sure there aren't any memory leaks and keep it small enough that it doesn't suck up all the RAM and crash the device. 4 years ago, it was easy. Just plug in the URL, and where you want it to go and it'll handle all the above + caching. Today we have Android Jetpack. Now MVVM architecture is the default. Everything is cleanly handled - we make sure that there's no memory leak when someone makes a call within the half second it takes to download the image. But for some reason, code is more tiresome to write. A single page used to be 2-3 files, now it's easily 12 files. Trying to debug a problem means sifting through those parts. The fact that we can code a full feature in 5 min means that very little thought is going into whether this feature is necessary, has side effects, or the responsibilities of the different parts. Budgets have gone up too, and now you can expect to deal with a freelancer from Qatar or Ukraine or whatever who builds a piece just fine, but nobody remembers how it works or whether this part was built correctly. I'd say that the individual parts work fine but as a whole, they go together poorly.

yesenadam 6y ago

> #1 was written in the 13th century, #2 in the 5th century BC and #3 in the 8th century BC. Not true. These all appear to be fake quotes. Apparently #1 are not words of Peter the Hermit, #2 not words of Socrates/Plato, #3 not found in Hesiod. #2 seems to be from 1907.[0] There are claims on the web it's a paraphrase of a speech of Justice in Aristophanes' comedy The Clouds[1], but I don't see much resemblance. This[2] page contains all 3 quotes, #2 prefaced by "You may have seen this quote, often (apparently inaccurately) attributed to Socrates", then claims the other two quotes are real. But he links to a 2004 discussion page[3], which under quote #1 says "It should be noted that the attribution of this quote to Peter the Hermit is as shaky as the attribution of the other quote to Socrates." [0] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/ [1] http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0241:card%3D961 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19... [2] https://nickfalkner.com/2013/04/21/the-kids-are-alright-within-statistical-error/ https://nickfalkner.com/2013/04/21/the-kids-are-alright-with... [3] http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=398104 http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=398104 https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates#Misattributed https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates#Misattributed