4 ms·

Yeah, a bunch of things in this article strike me as very American (I'm British). No-one in the UK worries about not being able to afford healthcare if they're

Yeah, a bunch of things in this article strike me as very American (I'm British). No-one in the UK worries about not being able to afford healthcare if they're poor, nor do they need a car to get to the grocery store in under an hour (unless they live in an isolated home out in the countryside, which probably means they're rich, not poor.) There are many, many places you can live in the UK without needing a car to get to work. The deposit thing looks insane to me too. My rental deposit is held in escrow by some third party; I've never heard of anyone not getting their deposit back when they move (unless they did something to deserve it e.g. trashing the place). The only issue around deposits is that you usually have to pay a deposit for the new place before you've received the deposit back for the old place, which can cause cashflow issues. I've always thought of the U.S. as a great place to be rich, but a terrible place to be poor. On the other hand, I find it laughable that this author describes a 900sqft apartment as "very small". 900sqft would be considered a decent-sized, mid-range apartment in London, and if you're poor you'll live somewhere MUCH smaller. Americans have such ginormous houses, even the poor ones.

gambiting 6y ago
>>On the other hand, I find it laughable that this author describes a 900sqft apartment as "very small". 900sqft would be considered a decent-sized, mid-range apartment in London, Yep, we actually bought a 3-bed house(not apartment) in UK, and the total space is 950sqft(about 90square metres). And that's not a small house around here by any measure. American houses are like their cars - absurdly large.
- a2tech 6y ago
  American here that grew up in a 3 bedroom house with around 900sqft of space and 4 people, and now live in a 2500sqft house with just my wife and 1 dog..I don't know how we did it. Thinking back it was so insanely cramped, my parents bedroom was the 'big' bedroom and it was just large enough to fit a queen sized bed, a chest of drawers, a gun case, and then a night stand on one side of the bed. The kids bedrooms barely fit a twin sized bed and a small desk with room to stand. Tiny bathroom, living room just big enough for 4-5 people. Very tiny kitchen, not large enough for a dishwasher.
  - robotmay 6y ago
    I once looked at a flat/apartment in a converted house here in the UK where the oven door got stuck on the wall opposite when you tried to open it.
    - selimthegrim 6y ago
      Sounds like a feature if you don't want people sticking their head in.
      - robotmay 6y ago
        Haha I'm now quite disappointed the estate agent didn't try to advertise it as a safety feature. I did once see a house listed as having "conveniant access to the motorway for commuting". It was actually directly underneath a bridge of the motorway :|
        selimthegrim 6y ago
        Uh oh better not give that agent any ideas, I think they might know who to market it to then á la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offender_colony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offe...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - gambiting 6y ago
    I mean, it isn't some weird flex with me going yeah it's cramped BUT WE LOVE IT THIS WAY. Like, yeah, this house would be too small for 4 people. But right now, with just me, wife, and a baby on the way - no problem. >>my parents bedroom was the 'big' bedroom and it was just large enough to fit a queen sized bed, a chest of drawers, a gun case, and then a night stand on one side of the bed That's exactly what ours is, minus the gun case ;-)
cmdkeen 6y ago
Rural poverty is a real thing, and often overlooked by politics / media / society. Rural villages no longer tend to have a shop or post office, the bus services can be erratic and infrequent, it's a real problem. The student rental market 12 or so years ago was definitely full of horror stories about getting deposits returned, knowing which letting agents to go with useful insider knowledge. The Scottish deposit security scheme is only a few years old and has definitely helped improve the situation. The rental market is one in which there can be significant power/information imbalances and where some protections make absolute sense.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Student and tourism rentals are worse than the regular rental market because 9x/10 the people getting screwed out of their deposit can afford it so there's less latent "it might actually be worth someone's time to sue you" to keep the landlords in check.
t0mas88 6y ago
In central London just 600sqft can easily cost you a million pounds... The place I rented when I lived there was a bit smaller and was for sale at 950k asking price.
mrsuprawsm 6y ago
>My rental deposit is held in escrow by some third party; I've never heard of anyone not getting their deposit back when they move (unless they did something to deserve it e.g. trashing the place). This is only a relatively recent thing in the UK, introduced about 10 years ago, to tackle the problem described in the original post of landlords running off with tenants deposits. When I was a student ~10 years ago, just before compulsory deposit protection was introduced, it was very common for landlords to invent or wildly exaggerate damages to keep the £1000+ deposit, especially because they thought that students would be a push-over.
- antognini 6y ago
  On paper many states in the US actually have pretty strong protections for tenants for their security deposits. It's not uncommon for states to have fairly strict standards as to the valid reasons a landlord can take money out of a security deposit. If a landlord withholds money for frivolous reasons the tenant can be entitled to double or treble damages. (So if they withhold $1000 for no reason, you can get back that $1000 and an additional $2000 or $3000.) The main issue is enforcement. If your landlord withholds the deposit, often your only recourse is to sue them (usually in small claims court). This is going to require paying some court fees, maybe on the order of $100 (which you may get back if you win, but you still need to pay them up front). Plus you're going to have to show up in court, which likely means missing work. And obviously you're not going to have a lawyer for this, whereas most landlords will. When I moved out of my last apartment my landlord withheld $100 because he claimed there was dust on the blinds. (There was not, we specifically dusted the blinds before moving out.) But the only way I could get that money back was to sue them, and it just wasn't worth it for me.
  - gizmo686 6y ago
    I don't know about most states, but in Maryland, the tenent is automatically entitled to attorney's fees when the landlord improperly withholds a deposit. Granted, if you are poor, this likely means that you need to find a lawyer willing to work on contingency. For what it is worth, just threatening to sue along with citing the relevent law and possible damages is probably enough. Landlords don't like going to court either, so if you make even a halfway credible threat they will probably pay.
dghlsakjg 6y ago
The US is a large and very diverse place, and very frequently you will find that there are very clear laws about what a landlord is and isn't allowed to charge for, as well as what proof they need to take a deposit. For example, Seattle has its own set of rules which are quite clear and don't allow contracts that would override them, in other places there are no rules, and what is in the contract is what you must abide by. The problem, that the author alluded to, is that there is no one that will solve or mediate a dispute short of taking a claim to court in the US. This is generally pretty cheap and easy for small claims, if you know what you are doing. Most people don't know what they are doing, or have no idea that small claims is even an option. As an American who now lives in a place with socialized healthcare, I can safely say that I'm not moving back until the US sorts out the healthcare crisis. I'm in Canada now, which is used as a punching bag by conservative Americans for how bad socialized healthcare can be. Anyone who has lived in both places knows how laughable that claim is. Canadians certainly have their complaints about this system, but I have never heard a Canadian ask for US style healthcare.
- blackshaw 6y ago
  > I have never heard a Canadian ask for US style healthcare. I've never heard anyone of any nationality say they wish their country had US-style healthcare.
  - dghlsakjg 6y ago
    Touche This comment was an aside about right wing news stories that pop up in the US about how Canadians are flocking to the US to get healthcare. It normally revolves around how some person was on a waiting list or couldn't get the procedure they wanted in Canada and had to come to the US. The truth is that there is normally an extenuating circumstance that isn't mentioned (e.g. the treatment is experimental or not approved in Canada. The patient is stuck on a wait list because it is a need-based system, so they might not 'need' that procedure more than the people ahead of them.)
nikon 6y ago
>>The deposit thing looks insane to me too. My rental deposit is held in escrow by some third party; I've never heard of anyone not getting their deposit back when they move (unless they did something to deserve it e.g. trashing the place). The only issue around deposits is that you usually have to pay a deposit for the new place before you've received the deposit back for the old place, which can cause cashflow issues. Anecdotal but myself (multiple moves) and most friends in London had to battle for a few hundred quid being attempted to stolen from the deposit before returning for various BS reasons. The dispute scheme was great as a tenant, but did mean months without the funds back.

gambiting 6y ago

>>On the other hand, I find it laughable that this author describes a 900sqft apartment as "very small". 900sqft would be considered a decent-sized, mid-range apartment in London, Yep, we actually bought a 3-bed house(not apartment) in UK, and the total space is 950sqft(about 90square metres). And that's not a small house around here by any measure. American houses are like their cars - absurdly large.

a2tech 6y ago
American here that grew up in a 3 bedroom house with around 900sqft of space and 4 people, and now live in a 2500sqft house with just my wife and 1 dog..I don't know how we did it. Thinking back it was so insanely cramped, my parents bedroom was the 'big' bedroom and it was just large enough to fit a queen sized bed, a chest of drawers, a gun case, and then a night stand on one side of the bed. The kids bedrooms barely fit a twin sized bed and a small desk with room to stand. Tiny bathroom, living room just big enough for 4-5 people. Very tiny kitchen, not large enough for a dishwasher.
- robotmay 6y ago
  I once looked at a flat/apartment in a converted house here in the UK where the oven door got stuck on the wall opposite when you tried to open it.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    Sounds like a feature if you don't want people sticking their head in.
    - robotmay 6y ago
      Haha I'm now quite disappointed the estate agent didn't try to advertise it as a safety feature. I did once see a house listed as having "conveniant access to the motorway for commuting". It was actually directly underneath a bridge of the motorway :|
      - selimthegrim 6y ago
        Uh oh better not give that agent any ideas, I think they might know who to market it to then á la https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offender_colony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offe...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- gambiting 6y ago
  I mean, it isn't some weird flex with me going yeah it's cramped BUT WE LOVE IT THIS WAY. Like, yeah, this house would be too small for 4 people. But right now, with just me, wife, and a baby on the way - no problem. >>my parents bedroom was the 'big' bedroom and it was just large enough to fit a queen sized bed, a chest of drawers, a gun case, and then a night stand on one side of the bed That's exactly what ours is, minus the gun case ;-)

cmdkeen 6y ago

Rural poverty is a real thing, and often overlooked by politics / media / society. Rural villages no longer tend to have a shop or post office, the bus services can be erratic and infrequent, it's a real problem. The student rental market 12 or so years ago was definitely full of horror stories about getting deposits returned, knowing which letting agents to go with useful insider knowledge. The Scottish deposit security scheme is only a few years old and has definitely helped improve the situation. The rental market is one in which there can be significant power/information imbalances and where some protections make absolute sense.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Student and tourism rentals are worse than the regular rental market because 9x/10 the people getting screwed out of their deposit can afford it so there's less latent "it might actually be worth someone's time to sue you" to keep the landlords in check.

t0mas88 6y ago

In central London just 600sqft can easily cost you a million pounds... The place I rented when I lived there was a bit smaller and was for sale at 950k asking price.

mrsuprawsm 6y ago

>My rental deposit is held in escrow by some third party; I've never heard of anyone not getting their deposit back when they move (unless they did something to deserve it e.g. trashing the place). This is only a relatively recent thing in the UK, introduced about 10 years ago, to tackle the problem described in the original post of landlords running off with tenants deposits. When I was a student ~10 years ago, just before compulsory deposit protection was introduced, it was very common for landlords to invent or wildly exaggerate damages to keep the £1000+ deposit, especially because they thought that students would be a push-over.

antognini 6y ago
On paper many states in the US actually have pretty strong protections for tenants for their security deposits. It's not uncommon for states to have fairly strict standards as to the valid reasons a landlord can take money out of a security deposit. If a landlord withholds money for frivolous reasons the tenant can be entitled to double or treble damages. (So if they withhold $1000 for no reason, you can get back that $1000 and an additional $2000 or $3000.) The main issue is enforcement. If your landlord withholds the deposit, often your only recourse is to sue them (usually in small claims court). This is going to require paying some court fees, maybe on the order of $100 (which you may get back if you win, but you still need to pay them up front). Plus you're going to have to show up in court, which likely means missing work. And obviously you're not going to have a lawyer for this, whereas most landlords will. When I moved out of my last apartment my landlord withheld $100 because he claimed there was dust on the blinds. (There was not, we specifically dusted the blinds before moving out.) But the only way I could get that money back was to sue them, and it just wasn't worth it for me.
- gizmo686 6y ago
  I don't know about most states, but in Maryland, the tenent is automatically entitled to attorney's fees when the landlord improperly withholds a deposit. Granted, if you are poor, this likely means that you need to find a lawyer willing to work on contingency. For what it is worth, just threatening to sue along with citing the relevent law and possible damages is probably enough. Landlords don't like going to court either, so if you make even a halfway credible threat they will probably pay.

dghlsakjg 6y ago

The US is a large and very diverse place, and very frequently you will find that there are very clear laws about what a landlord is and isn't allowed to charge for, as well as what proof they need to take a deposit. For example, Seattle has its own set of rules which are quite clear and don't allow contracts that would override them, in other places there are no rules, and what is in the contract is what you must abide by. The problem, that the author alluded to, is that there is no one that will solve or mediate a dispute short of taking a claim to court in the US. This is generally pretty cheap and easy for small claims, if you know what you are doing. Most people don't know what they are doing, or have no idea that small claims is even an option. As an American who now lives in a place with socialized healthcare, I can safely say that I'm not moving back until the US sorts out the healthcare crisis. I'm in Canada now, which is used as a punching bag by conservative Americans for how bad socialized healthcare can be. Anyone who has lived in both places knows how laughable that claim is. Canadians certainly have their complaints about this system, but I have never heard a Canadian ask for US style healthcare.

blackshaw 6y ago
> I have never heard a Canadian ask for US style healthcare. I've never heard anyone of any nationality say they wish their country had US-style healthcare.
- dghlsakjg 6y ago
  Touche This comment was an aside about right wing news stories that pop up in the US about how Canadians are flocking to the US to get healthcare. It normally revolves around how some person was on a waiting list or couldn't get the procedure they wanted in Canada and had to come to the US. The truth is that there is normally an extenuating circumstance that isn't mentioned (e.g. the treatment is experimental or not approved in Canada. The patient is stuck on a wait list because it is a need-based system, so they might not 'need' that procedure more than the people ahead of them.)

nikon 6y ago

>>The deposit thing looks insane to me too. My rental deposit is held in escrow by some third party; I've never heard of anyone not getting their deposit back when they move (unless they did something to deserve it e.g. trashing the place). The only issue around deposits is that you usually have to pay a deposit for the new place before you've received the deposit back for the old place, which can cause cashflow issues. Anecdotal but myself (multiple moves) and most friends in London had to battle for a few hundred quid being attempted to stolen from the deposit before returning for various BS reasons. The dispute scheme was great as a tenant, but did mean months without the funds back.