7 ms·

>while it’s normal to put down a month or two worth of rent as a security deposit, it’s much less normal to get it back This looks insane to an Australian. I h

>while it’s normal to put down a month or two worth of rent as a security deposit, it’s much less normal to get it back This looks insane to an Australian. I have moved house 4 times in the past 5 years and I have never not got all of my bond back. Some states here have a rule that the bond money is held by the state so that the landowner doesn't just take that money for themselves. How can the poor ever break the cycle if no one is willing to help protect them from shitty rent-seekers?

lotsofpulp 6y ago
I don’t know the statistics, but I live in the US, and had rented for 10+ years with 5 of 6 different landlords in 3 cities, and I always got my deposit back, and I don’t know anyone who was stiffed either. But I wasn’t staying in the worst places, but not the best either. One was an informal cash transaction rental from a Craigslist ad and it worked out.
- irjustin 6y ago
  Stay in a slum and you'll find those who are more than happy to break the rules if they know they can. You probably have the mental fortitude to figure out how to fight back on your own. To read the docs, know your position, agreements, and how to take a landlord to court to win. In low income, people don't know their rights nor do they ever believe that the system could ever be on their side. And, they're not unjustified in that thinking.
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  Through 3 landlords I only got a security deposit back once. Both times it was claimed they needed the money to repaint the apartment (I didn't damage the walls or even put anything up on them).
- paxys 6y ago
  A lot depends on state and local laws. In San Francisco, for example, I get interest on the security deposit my landlord is holding credited to my rent every year. They cannot charge for reasonable wear and tear. So even though the deposit is large, I expect ~100% of it back when I leave. If not, there is a strong tenants union that will support my case.
WalterBright 6y ago
I always got my security deposit back when I rented. No drama, they just checked the apartment and gave it back.
- acdha 6y ago
  In the US, there are sharp race and class disparities here: if you’re white and pass for at least lower middle class, you are much less likely to have an issue because even unethical landlords know the police and courts will listen to complaints. Go outside of those communities and complaints become more common, often with accounts of a rental company caving immediately after someone demonstrated knowledge of their legal rights and lack of fear to contact the justice system.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    > caving immediately after someone demonstrated knowledge of their legal rights and lack of fear to contact the justice system. Sounds like the solution. When I was younger, people would try to take advantage of me, but all it takes is a bit of standing up for yourself and they concede.
    - acdha 6y ago
      Yes, but note that your standing to do so varies considerably — I've never had problems doing that as a white man but I know people who declined to involve the city / law enforcement because they had had past bad experiences due to being black, gay, etc. If the landlord threatens to call the cops and you know a history of people like you having been mistreated or simply blown off, you might give up and accept it as another example of the world being unfair to add to many others.
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        If you believe that nobody has tried to cheat me, steal from me, take advantage of my ignorance and inexperience, steamroll me, threaten me, con me, etc., you're very mistaken.
blackshaw 6y ago
Yeah, a bunch of things in this article strike me as very American (I'm British). No-one in the UK worries about not being able to afford healthcare if they're poor, nor do they need a car to get to the grocery store in under an hour (unless they live in an isolated home out in the countryside, which probably means they're rich, not poor.) There are many, many places you can live in the UK without needing a car to get to work. The deposit thing looks insane to me too. My rental deposit is held in escrow by some third party; I've never heard of anyone not getting their deposit back when they move (unless they did something to deserve it e.g. trashing the place). The only issue around deposits is that you usually have to pay a deposit for the new place before you've received the deposit back for the old place, which can cause cashflow issues. I've always thought of the U.S. as a great place to be rich, but a terrible place to be poor. On the other hand, I find it laughable that this author describes a 900sqft apartment as "very small". 900sqft would be considered a decent-sized, mid-range apartment in London, and if you're poor you'll live somewhere MUCH smaller. Americans have such ginormous houses, even the poor ones.
- gambiting 6y ago
  >>On the other hand, I find it laughable that this author describes a 900sqft apartment as "very small". 900sqft would be considered a decent-sized, mid-range apartment in London, Yep, we actually bought a 3-bed house(not apartment) in UK, and the total space is 950sqft(about 90square metres). And that's not a small house around here by any measure. American houses are like their cars - absurdly large.
  - a2tech 6y ago
    American here that grew up in a 3 bedroom house with around 900sqft of space and 4 people, and now live in a 2500sqft house with just my wife and 1 dog..I don't know how we did it. Thinking back it was so insanely cramped, my parents bedroom was the 'big' bedroom and it was just large enough to fit a queen sized bed, a chest of drawers, a gun case, and then a night stand on one side of the bed. The kids bedrooms barely fit a twin sized bed and a small desk with room to stand. Tiny bathroom, living room just big enough for 4-5 people. Very tiny kitchen, not large enough for a dishwasher.
gambiting 6y ago
Same in UK. I have moved 8 times in the past 11 years and I always got my full deposit back. Also yes, the entire article just screams "the experience of being poor....in America". From the lack of social net, to the absurd costs of insurance and healthcare. I don't mean to say that life elsewhere is all rosy and there are no problems at all, but I can't even imagine worrying about costs of health treatments - it's just a given you will get them and you won't pay anything. I guess it's part of the author's point - that some people don't realize how good they have it.
kayodelycaon 6y ago
The last place I rented from took my deposit for damage they knew existed before I started renting. (They literally painted over mold in the kitchen closet.) Then they tried to send me a $1000+ bill over a year later for “damages”.
Havoc 6y ago
Yeah some. Landlord pocketing the interest on it can happen, and if they're nasty they might argue re you can't get it all back cause of a scratch on the floor over there but just straight up refusal is insane
elhudy 6y ago
This varies on a state-by-state basis. In Chicago, rental protections allow for the rentee to sue for beyond the deposit, as well as their lawyer's wages, in the case of a security deposit being wrongly taken. I know because I won back a lot of money from bogus 'damage' claims. Other states have laws that lean towards favoring the renter. Since we're throwing anecdotes out there, I've had my landlords attempt to wrongly and knowingly take money from my security deposit about 30% of the time. The lower-class the apartment is, the more likely the owner is a slumlord, and will try to scam you.
a_bonobo 6y ago
>I have never not got all of my bond back. Then you're lucky - I've had enough friends in QLD and WA who have had their bond partially kept back because the landlord company thought they could get a few hundred or thousand for free. Usually the trick is to say that pre-existing damage was caused by my friends. It's impossible to defend from if you don't claim the damage when you move in! I've personally only had one huge battle with the company as they thought our place was dirty when we moved out, despite spending two full days cleaning it (townhouse). I now always pay a cleaning company to avoid the hassle, but that's $100-200 not everyone can afford. I found these 2018 numbers that say that 30% of bonds are not returned in Australia; https://www.finder.com.au/30-of-aussie-tenants-dont-get-their-rental-bond-back https://www.finder.com.au/30-of-aussie-tenants-dont-get-thei...
- toomanybeersies 6y ago
  I always take photos when I start a tenancy. More often than not, the property manager/landlord tries that I caused pre-existing damage and the photos always help.
trynumber9 6y ago
I'm American and my experience matches yours. I've always got my deposit back. However, if there is a country that embodies "your mileage may vary" it is the USA.
- boston_clone 6y ago
  that is not just due to us sticking with the imperial system, either.
toomanybeersies 6y ago
Although bond is held by the RTBA (or whatever it's called outside Vic), it's pretty common for landlords/property managers to try and strong arm tenants into giving up part of their bond for "damages", most of which are either resonable wear and tear, pre-existing, or not the responsibility of the tenant. For poorer people, who need the money sooner than later, it's often easier to agree to get half your bond back than to apply to VCAT (not to mention a lot of tenants fear they'll get blacklisted if they do) and possibly get all your bond back several months later. I'm currently in the process of trying to claw my bond back from my previous landlord, it's been over 3 months now. Luckily I can afford it, but I know a lot of people who can't.
gizmo686 6y ago
American here. I've always gotten my deposit back, but more often then not it involves work and knowledge on my part. Most tenets (even my wealthy peers) don't really know there rights and just write off the deposits as a cost of moving, so most landlords assume they can get away with stealing them. I have always gotten payed after sending a letter to the effect of "I moved on XXX date. With interest (as required by the lease and state law) you owe me my security deposit of $YYY within 45 days or I am entitled to sue for 3x that amount and attorneys fees." There are also some procedural rules around how to deduct from security deposits (among other things, you must send an itemized list by certified mail to the last known address of the former tenet within 45 days of the end of the lease). I'm pretty sure most landlords don't even follow that for otherwise valid deductions

lotsofpulp 6y ago

I don’t know the statistics, but I live in the US, and had rented for 10+ years with 5 of 6 different landlords in 3 cities, and I always got my deposit back, and I don’t know anyone who was stiffed either. But I wasn’t staying in the worst places, but not the best either. One was an informal cash transaction rental from a Craigslist ad and it worked out.

irjustin 6y ago
Stay in a slum and you'll find those who are more than happy to break the rules if they know they can. You probably have the mental fortitude to figure out how to fight back on your own. To read the docs, know your position, agreements, and how to take a landlord to court to win. In low income, people don't know their rights nor do they ever believe that the system could ever be on their side. And, they're not unjustified in that thinking.
notsureaboutpg 6y ago
Through 3 landlords I only got a security deposit back once. Both times it was claimed they needed the money to repaint the apartment (I didn't damage the walls or even put anything up on them).
paxys 6y ago
A lot depends on state and local laws. In San Francisco, for example, I get interest on the security deposit my landlord is holding credited to my rent every year. They cannot charge for reasonable wear and tear. So even though the deposit is large, I expect ~100% of it back when I leave. If not, there is a strong tenants union that will support my case.

WalterBright 6y ago

I always got my security deposit back when I rented. No drama, they just checked the apartment and gave it back.

acdha 6y ago
In the US, there are sharp race and class disparities here: if you’re white and pass for at least lower middle class, you are much less likely to have an issue because even unethical landlords know the police and courts will listen to complaints. Go outside of those communities and complaints become more common, often with accounts of a rental company caving immediately after someone demonstrated knowledge of their legal rights and lack of fear to contact the justice system.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > caving immediately after someone demonstrated knowledge of their legal rights and lack of fear to contact the justice system. Sounds like the solution. When I was younger, people would try to take advantage of me, but all it takes is a bit of standing up for yourself and they concede.
  - acdha 6y ago
    Yes, but note that your standing to do so varies considerably — I've never had problems doing that as a white man but I know people who declined to involve the city / law enforcement because they had had past bad experiences due to being black, gay, etc. If the landlord threatens to call the cops and you know a history of people like you having been mistreated or simply blown off, you might give up and accept it as another example of the world being unfair to add to many others.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      If you believe that nobody has tried to cheat me, steal from me, take advantage of my ignorance and inexperience, steamroll me, threaten me, con me, etc., you're very mistaken.

blackshaw 6y ago

Yeah, a bunch of things in this article strike me as very American (I'm British). No-one in the UK worries about not being able to afford healthcare if they're poor, nor do they need a car to get to the grocery store in under an hour (unless they live in an isolated home out in the countryside, which probably means they're rich, not poor.) There are many, many places you can live in the UK without needing a car to get to work. The deposit thing looks insane to me too. My rental deposit is held in escrow by some third party; I've never heard of anyone not getting their deposit back when they move (unless they did something to deserve it e.g. trashing the place). The only issue around deposits is that you usually have to pay a deposit for the new place before you've received the deposit back for the old place, which can cause cashflow issues. I've always thought of the U.S. as a great place to be rich, but a terrible place to be poor. On the other hand, I find it laughable that this author describes a 900sqft apartment as "very small". 900sqft would be considered a decent-sized, mid-range apartment in London, and if you're poor you'll live somewhere MUCH smaller. Americans have such ginormous houses, even the poor ones.

gambiting 6y ago
>>On the other hand, I find it laughable that this author describes a 900sqft apartment as "very small". 900sqft would be considered a decent-sized, mid-range apartment in London, Yep, we actually bought a 3-bed house(not apartment) in UK, and the total space is 950sqft(about 90square metres). And that's not a small house around here by any measure. American houses are like their cars - absurdly large.
- a2tech 6y ago
  American here that grew up in a 3 bedroom house with around 900sqft of space and 4 people, and now live in a 2500sqft house with just my wife and 1 dog..I don't know how we did it. Thinking back it was so insanely cramped, my parents bedroom was the 'big' bedroom and it was just large enough to fit a queen sized bed, a chest of drawers, a gun case, and then a night stand on one side of the bed. The kids bedrooms barely fit a twin sized bed and a small desk with room to stand. Tiny bathroom, living room just big enough for 4-5 people. Very tiny kitchen, not large enough for a dishwasher.

gambiting 6y ago

Same in UK. I have moved 8 times in the past 11 years and I always got my full deposit back. Also yes, the entire article just screams "the experience of being poor....in America". From the lack of social net, to the absurd costs of insurance and healthcare. I don't mean to say that life elsewhere is all rosy and there are no problems at all, but I can't even imagine worrying about costs of health treatments - it's just a given you will get them and you won't pay anything. I guess it's part of the author's point - that some people don't realize how good they have it.

kayodelycaon 6y ago

The last place I rented from took my deposit for damage they knew existed before I started renting. (They literally painted over mold in the kitchen closet.) Then they tried to send me a $1000+ bill over a year later for “damages”.

Havoc 6y ago

Yeah some. Landlord pocketing the interest on it can happen, and if they're nasty they might argue re you can't get it all back cause of a scratch on the floor over there but just straight up refusal is insane

elhudy 6y ago

This varies on a state-by-state basis. In Chicago, rental protections allow for the rentee to sue for beyond the deposit, as well as their lawyer's wages, in the case of a security deposit being wrongly taken. I know because I won back a lot of money from bogus 'damage' claims. Other states have laws that lean towards favoring the renter. Since we're throwing anecdotes out there, I've had my landlords attempt to wrongly and knowingly take money from my security deposit about 30% of the time. The lower-class the apartment is, the more likely the owner is a slumlord, and will try to scam you.

a_bonobo 6y ago

>I have never not got all of my bond back. Then you're lucky - I've had enough friends in QLD and WA who have had their bond partially kept back because the landlord company thought they could get a few hundred or thousand for free. Usually the trick is to say that pre-existing damage was caused by my friends. It's impossible to defend from if you don't claim the damage when you move in! I've personally only had one huge battle with the company as they thought our place was dirty when we moved out, despite spending two full days cleaning it (townhouse). I now always pay a cleaning company to avoid the hassle, but that's $100-200 not everyone can afford. I found these 2018 numbers that say that 30% of bonds are not returned in Australia; https://www.finder.com.au/30-of-aussie-tenants-dont-get-their-rental-bond-back https://www.finder.com.au/30-of-aussie-tenants-dont-get-thei...

toomanybeersies 6y ago
I always take photos when I start a tenancy. More often than not, the property manager/landlord tries that I caused pre-existing damage and the photos always help.

trynumber9 6y ago

I'm American and my experience matches yours. I've always got my deposit back. However, if there is a country that embodies "your mileage may vary" it is the USA.

boston_clone 6y ago
that is not just due to us sticking with the imperial system, either.

toomanybeersies 6y ago

Although bond is held by the RTBA (or whatever it's called outside Vic), it's pretty common for landlords/property managers to try and strong arm tenants into giving up part of their bond for "damages", most of which are either resonable wear and tear, pre-existing, or not the responsibility of the tenant. For poorer people, who need the money sooner than later, it's often easier to agree to get half your bond back than to apply to VCAT (not to mention a lot of tenants fear they'll get blacklisted if they do) and possibly get all your bond back several months later. I'm currently in the process of trying to claw my bond back from my previous landlord, it's been over 3 months now. Luckily I can afford it, but I know a lot of people who can't.

gizmo686 6y ago

American here. I've always gotten my deposit back, but more often then not it involves work and knowledge on my part. Most tenets (even my wealthy peers) don't really know there rights and just write off the deposits as a cost of moving, so most landlords assume they can get away with stealing them. I have always gotten payed after sending a letter to the effect of "I moved on XXX date. With interest (as required by the lease and state law) you owe me my security deposit of $YYY within 45 days or I am entitled to sue for 3x that amount and attorneys fees." There are also some procedural rules around how to deduct from security deposits (among other things, you must send an itemized list by certified mail to the last known address of the former tenet within 45 days of the end of the lease). I'm pretty sure most landlords don't even follow that for otherwise valid deductions