6 ms·

Maybe it helps to not think about people as statistics. You could write something like "Do you doubt you are right for this job? Please apply anyways, we'd like

Maybe it helps to not think about people as statistics. You could write something like "Do you doubt you are right for this job? Please apply anyways, we'd like to know about you!". The problem with that, of course, is that you cannot meet every applicant. So after all, maybe it's not the wording but the position's description that's the problem.

Oras 6y ago
And what is the difference between wording and position's description?
- choeger 6y ago
  Wording as it is described here seems to be meaningless. HR persons in general cannot understand the position's requirements. That's why they cling so much on technical details. "What tools do you use? Clang 10.0.1? Ok!" - "Position requires at least 5 years of experience with Clang 10.0.1" Anything about "challenging", "commitment", etc. are just meaningless, interchangeable fill words. Otherwise, no HR person would dare changing them. I tend to think about them in the same way as fonts.
oblio 6y ago
Isn't the real problem in recruiting that a ton of people who have nothing do to with the job requirements apply? "Farmer, 45 years old, never finished high school" applies to image processing engineer position.
- Majestic121 6y ago
  Is this a common issue for you ? In my experience, the most common 'don't match the job requirement' issue is mostly about lack of experience (e.g. out of school and applying to senior position). And in this case I don't really blame them for trying
  - oblio 6y ago
    I was exaggerating, but yes, there are also big mismatches. I think this tends to happen more with big job sites.
- kqr 6y ago
  This is more of a problem with men than women, in my experience. I've even toyed with the idea of compensating for this by having two sets of job ads -- one with very high requirements, and one with just the bare minimum. Then accept applicants for interview from each based on the applicant's statistical propensity to exaggerate their abilities.
  - exporectomy 6y ago
    What do you mean by "statistical propensity to exaggerate their abilities"? How can you measure that without already knowing enough to just select applicants directly without considering which ad they responded to or who exaggerated more?
    - kqr 6y ago
      There will be a great number of well-qualified women who do not respond at all to more demanding ads. Less demanding ads catch these, but also catch a large number of under-qualified men. It's a precision-recall problem, and by selecting differently in the two situations I speculate that one could get more well-qualified candidates with less effort.
      - CyberDildonics 6y ago
        Or you could put out an honest job listing based on what you want and stop bamboozling yourself with sexist assumptions.
      - exporectomy 6y ago
        But how will you distinguish the well qualified female applications from the large number of under-qualified men? Surely not by their sex which is probably illegal and certainly unethical.
        kqr 6y ago
        The legal question is definitely interesting, but I don't see how it would be unethical to use the most powerful set of signals available. The situation seems to me a bit similar to how grocery stores and cafes package what's essentially the same product under a large range of price points to let the more price-sensitive customers self-select. If I find anything unethical, it's knowingly continuing the practise of writing job postings that put one group of people at a clear and documented disadvantage.

Oras 6y ago

And what is the difference between wording and position's description?

choeger 6y ago
Wording as it is described here seems to be meaningless. HR persons in general cannot understand the position's requirements. That's why they cling so much on technical details. "What tools do you use? Clang 10.0.1? Ok!" - "Position requires at least 5 years of experience with Clang 10.0.1" Anything about "challenging", "commitment", etc. are just meaningless, interchangeable fill words. Otherwise, no HR person would dare changing them. I tend to think about them in the same way as fonts.

oblio 6y ago

Isn't the real problem in recruiting that a ton of people who have nothing do to with the job requirements apply? "Farmer, 45 years old, never finished high school" applies to image processing engineer position.

Majestic121 6y ago
Is this a common issue for you ? In my experience, the most common 'don't match the job requirement' issue is mostly about lack of experience (e.g. out of school and applying to senior position). And in this case I don't really blame them for trying
- oblio 6y ago
  I was exaggerating, but yes, there are also big mismatches. I think this tends to happen more with big job sites.
kqr 6y ago
This is more of a problem with men than women, in my experience. I've even toyed with the idea of compensating for this by having two sets of job ads -- one with very high requirements, and one with just the bare minimum. Then accept applicants for interview from each based on the applicant's statistical propensity to exaggerate their abilities.
- exporectomy 6y ago
  What do you mean by "statistical propensity to exaggerate their abilities"? How can you measure that without already knowing enough to just select applicants directly without considering which ad they responded to or who exaggerated more?
  - kqr 6y ago
    There will be a great number of well-qualified women who do not respond at all to more demanding ads. Less demanding ads catch these, but also catch a large number of under-qualified men. It's a precision-recall problem, and by selecting differently in the two situations I speculate that one could get more well-qualified candidates with less effort.
    - CyberDildonics 6y ago
      Or you could put out an honest job listing based on what you want and stop bamboozling yourself with sexist assumptions.
    - exporectomy 6y ago
      But how will you distinguish the well qualified female applications from the large number of under-qualified men? Surely not by their sex which is probably illegal and certainly unethical.
      - kqr 6y ago
        The legal question is definitely interesting, but I don't see how it would be unethical to use the most powerful set of signals available. The situation seems to me a bit similar to how grocery stores and cafes package what's essentially the same product under a large range of price points to let the more price-sensitive customers self-select. If I find anything unethical, it's knowingly continuing the practise of writing job postings that put one group of people at a clear and documented disadvantage.