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> If they bully you on this, you already know everything about them you need to. I have a broader question that's not very specific to non-competes. I've held

> If they bully you on this, you already know everything about them you need to. I have a broader question that's not very specific to non-competes. I've held a handful of jobs with companies of varying size (from startup to thousands of employees). I've never encountered any company that wasn't a complete and utter bully in all steps of the hiring process (and I still had to take those jobs). Simply ignoring my topics of discussion, "take it or leave it" style. At one company, they even put a lower salary in the contract than we had previously (orally) discussed. Is that just my impression, or could you clarify what a non-bully actually looks like?

motohagiography 6y ago
The tell is in your parenthesis' "(and I still had to take those jobs)" as that sounds like you entered into the discussion without any other options to start with, and they treated you like a beggar. A discussion with a non-bully company looks like there is an ongoing discussion and uncertainty on both sides about whether the deal is going to close up to the very end, instead of agreeing from the outset and then having them stack new and unexpected conditions on the "agreement." I respond to "take it or leave it," with, "I'm available to discuss options." Few people want to take responsibility for killing a deal, and especially people who use blunt tools like that. However, to do that, you need to always be open to the possibility that there isn't a fair deal to be had and by walking away you're lucky to have dodged the bullet. People who expect to be rewarded for being overly agreeable get treated like dogs doing tricks for treats, and then they are surprised when they aren't treated with respect after. As though to say, "I've fetched, sat, rolled over, shaked a paw, and begged, what do you mean I can't eat from the dinner table?" I've also "lost" job offers through negotiating, even ones I needed really badly and it seemed to friends or family like I was the asshole, but I've found that people who like you for your agreeableness don't really like you, they just like what you do for them and what felt like regret at the time was just doubt and now it is pride and confidence for having believed in myself. The terms I let the deals die over would have had long term negative trajectory for me and I knew I could do better if I kept looking. Where they saw a lost opportunity, I saw applying principles when it was hardest to do so and the stakes were high. A big part of not being bullied is not incentivizing a situation where you can be bullied in the first place.

motohagiography 6y ago

The tell is in your parenthesis' "(and I still had to take those jobs)" as that sounds like you entered into the discussion without any other options to start with, and they treated you like a beggar. A discussion with a non-bully company looks like there is an ongoing discussion and uncertainty on both sides about whether the deal is going to close up to the very end, instead of agreeing from the outset and then having them stack new and unexpected conditions on the "agreement." I respond to "take it or leave it," with, "I'm available to discuss options." Few people want to take responsibility for killing a deal, and especially people who use blunt tools like that. However, to do that, you need to always be open to the possibility that there isn't a fair deal to be had and by walking away you're lucky to have dodged the bullet. People who expect to be rewarded for being overly agreeable get treated like dogs doing tricks for treats, and then they are surprised when they aren't treated with respect after. As though to say, "I've fetched, sat, rolled over, shaked a paw, and begged, what do you mean I can't eat from the dinner table?" I've also "lost" job offers through negotiating, even ones I needed really badly and it seemed to friends or family like I was the asshole, but I've found that people who like you for your agreeableness don't really like you, they just like what you do for them and what felt like regret at the time was just doubt and now it is pride and confidence for having believed in myself. The terms I let the deals die over would have had long term negative trajectory for me and I knew I could do better if I kept looking. Where they saw a lost opportunity, I saw applying principles when it was hardest to do so and the stakes were high. A big part of not being bullied is not incentivizing a situation where you can be bullied in the first place.