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I tell you what. Let's experiment a little with this. How about we pay teachers better and see how it works out? Let's see if education improves. Then, with tho

I tell you what. Let's experiment a little with this. How about we pay teachers better and see how it works out? Let's see if education improves. Then, with those results in hand we can discuss raising the pay of politicians. Right now the best data I know of is the results of raising the pay of CEOs. That data is not promising for politicians.

sova 6y ago
Would it not be wonderful to have a pay cap on the ratio between the highest paid employee and the lowest paid? We could extend this to all sectors.
- correct_horse 6y ago
  This would most probably result in corporations laying off the lowest paid employees and paying contractors to do the same work.
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  Can you share some data that illustrates why you think this is a good idea?
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  No, this almost certainly would not achieve the outcome you’re hoping for, and would likely create new problems.
- KMag 6y ago
  You'd presumably want that limit to also extend to subcontractors and suppliers as well. It would be a wonderful human achievement to substantially raise wages in Bangladesh, for instance. Presumably we'd need garment price assistance for lower-middle class people in Western societies to partially offset the disproportionate impact on their lifestyles. I like the sentiment, and we shouldn't let fear of unintended consequences prevent all human progress, but there are significant risks with regard to unintended consequences and concentrating government powers on wages and social programs beginning to approach failed utopian experiments of the past.
  - sova 6y ago
    Thanks for your comment -- what is "garment price assistance?" As other commenters have skillfully pointed out, this would likely have deleterious effects unless, as you say, it was implemented in a fully-downstream fashion to include the whole pool of workers including contractors and the like. And of course, when regulations get too stiff in one city or state or nation, companies move. That is also a big obstacle in this idea. But there is at least one company that has the CEO salary capped at a certain number of multiples of the lowest-paid employee, and their culture seems to be great.
maxerickson 6y ago
Can I set the parameters of the teacher experiment? For instance, I'd expect 50% increases to have little to no impact.
irjustin 6y ago
I agree that we should pay teachers better. For the vast majority of school districts, teachers are not paid their value compared to the responsibility/influence they hold.
hnick 6y ago
I think you need both the carrot and the stick. The problem with low pay is, if you get out the stick, you're only left with people with nothing left to lose. The bottom of the barrel. With higher pay, people have something to lose. But unless you have policies and incentives to make them fear that loss, they'll still just coast along and assume they deserve the money just for showing up. Some are, of course, intrinsically motivated to do a good job but that motivation can dry up seeing how coworkers act daily. When I say fear, I don't mean the kind that makes you dread coming to work. Just the usual fear of failure that makes you want to do something well to avoid the downside. How to set that up? I'm not a teacher, but I bet teachers out there know who the bad ones are so there's probably a way to do it. The same for other jobs.
- salawat 6y ago
  If you're not already getting that on a regular basis as a teacher (the type of fear you're talking about), then I have a great fear for the direction our civilization is going. Seeing as today's students are tomorrow's inheritors, and need to at least have good enough foundations to maintain and opeerate what we're getting put in place today. My concern though is teachers are so distracted making fiscal ends meet that they can't bring their all to the classroom...
  - hnick 6y ago
    I've seen numerous teachers on Reddit talking about the staff they work with and how hard it is to get rid of some, the usual teacher union protection complaints, and students complaining about bad teachers (what else is new though). I'm sure it does vary a lot around the world though and I can say I have no real complaints about my public school education here in Australia. Maybe I was lucky. Maybe things are very different now. > My concern though is teachers are so distracted making fiscal ends meet that they can't bring their all to the classroom... Yes that's another part I didn't mention, and a living wage will address that. But you also have cases where they spend their own money on classroom supplies due to poor funding so you'd want to address that too. Once everyone is comfortable though, you need to make sure it doesn't turn into indolence which is what I was getting at.
airhead969 6y ago
Paying teacher livable wages would be good. However, contrary to popular belief "more is always better" throwing money at problems isn't always a solution. I was in academia, and often vast amounts of money were thrown about without planning or oversight, and it never worked out.
- freeopinion 6y ago
  I was specifically referring to education, not academia. But your point is still valid. Still, I'd prefer to run this experiment on teachers before politicians.
  - airhead969 6y ago
    That's what I meant if it were ambiguous. Constantly, more money is thrown at K-12 education but it never seems to reach teachers, students, or buildings. It too often goes to administrator perks and their conference jet-setting-at-work lifestyle.

sova 6y ago

Would it not be wonderful to have a pay cap on the ratio between the highest paid employee and the lowest paid? We could extend this to all sectors.

correct_horse 6y ago
This would most probably result in corporations laying off the lowest paid employees and paying contractors to do the same work.
arthurcolle 6y ago
Can you share some data that illustrates why you think this is a good idea?
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
No, this almost certainly would not achieve the outcome you’re hoping for, and would likely create new problems.
KMag 6y ago
You'd presumably want that limit to also extend to subcontractors and suppliers as well. It would be a wonderful human achievement to substantially raise wages in Bangladesh, for instance. Presumably we'd need garment price assistance for lower-middle class people in Western societies to partially offset the disproportionate impact on their lifestyles. I like the sentiment, and we shouldn't let fear of unintended consequences prevent all human progress, but there are significant risks with regard to unintended consequences and concentrating government powers on wages and social programs beginning to approach failed utopian experiments of the past.
- sova 6y ago
  Thanks for your comment -- what is "garment price assistance?" As other commenters have skillfully pointed out, this would likely have deleterious effects unless, as you say, it was implemented in a fully-downstream fashion to include the whole pool of workers including contractors and the like. And of course, when regulations get too stiff in one city or state or nation, companies move. That is also a big obstacle in this idea. But there is at least one company that has the CEO salary capped at a certain number of multiples of the lowest-paid employee, and their culture seems to be great.

maxerickson 6y ago

Can I set the parameters of the teacher experiment? For instance, I'd expect 50% increases to have little to no impact.

irjustin 6y ago

I agree that we should pay teachers better. For the vast majority of school districts, teachers are not paid their value compared to the responsibility/influence they hold.

hnick 6y ago

I think you need both the carrot and the stick. The problem with low pay is, if you get out the stick, you're only left with people with nothing left to lose. The bottom of the barrel. With higher pay, people have something to lose. But unless you have policies and incentives to make them fear that loss, they'll still just coast along and assume they deserve the money just for showing up. Some are, of course, intrinsically motivated to do a good job but that motivation can dry up seeing how coworkers act daily. When I say fear, I don't mean the kind that makes you dread coming to work. Just the usual fear of failure that makes you want to do something well to avoid the downside. How to set that up? I'm not a teacher, but I bet teachers out there know who the bad ones are so there's probably a way to do it. The same for other jobs.

salawat 6y ago
If you're not already getting that on a regular basis as a teacher (the type of fear you're talking about), then I have a great fear for the direction our civilization is going. Seeing as today's students are tomorrow's inheritors, and need to at least have good enough foundations to maintain and opeerate what we're getting put in place today. My concern though is teachers are so distracted making fiscal ends meet that they can't bring their all to the classroom...
- hnick 6y ago
  I've seen numerous teachers on Reddit talking about the staff they work with and how hard it is to get rid of some, the usual teacher union protection complaints, and students complaining about bad teachers (what else is new though). I'm sure it does vary a lot around the world though and I can say I have no real complaints about my public school education here in Australia. Maybe I was lucky. Maybe things are very different now. > My concern though is teachers are so distracted making fiscal ends meet that they can't bring their all to the classroom... Yes that's another part I didn't mention, and a living wage will address that. But you also have cases where they spend their own money on classroom supplies due to poor funding so you'd want to address that too. Once everyone is comfortable though, you need to make sure it doesn't turn into indolence which is what I was getting at.

airhead969 6y ago

Paying teacher livable wages would be good. However, contrary to popular belief "more is always better" throwing money at problems isn't always a solution. I was in academia, and often vast amounts of money were thrown about without planning or oversight, and it never worked out.

freeopinion 6y ago
I was specifically referring to education, not academia. But your point is still valid. Still, I'd prefer to run this experiment on teachers before politicians.
- airhead969 6y ago
  That's what I meant if it were ambiguous. Constantly, more money is thrown at K-12 education but it never seems to reach teachers, students, or buildings. It too often goes to administrator perks and their conference jet-setting-at-work lifestyle.