4 ms·

The problem is not limited to politicians, a lot of socially useful and traditionally somewhat prestigious jobs suffer from a pay problem. Education is a clear

The problem is not limited to politicians, a lot of socially useful and traditionally somewhat prestigious jobs suffer from a pay problem. Education is a clear case in point, both at the K-12 and University level. I've seen a lot of brilliant people eschew an academic career for industry because of financial reasons. The surplus of PhDs means that you can still hire brilliant people for now, but the quality of academics is going to be plumetting in the long run. It's something you can already noticed in some fields in Europe where salaries are even lower than the US. New recruits are bottom of the barrel candidates that adjuncted for 10 years because they could not do be hired anywhere else. Meanwhile, brilliant young scholars spent 2 years on the academic job market before realizing they could take their skills to industry, a political cabinet or a law firm and make 5 times what they'd make in academia for equally if not more intellectually rewarding work. In countries with socialized healthcare systems, medical doctors also tend to be grossly underpaid. The talented ones move abroad or work for private clinics and as a result the quality of care of public hospitals decreases.

hayst4ck 6y ago
> The talented ones move abroad or work for private clinics and as a result the quality of care of public hospitals decreases. I don't doubt this is true, but I definitely would want to see a citation for this. Most Canadians and Brits I've met abroad have been consistently happy with their healthcare systems, so my anecdata certainly doesn't lead me to believe healthcare quality is low.
- AussieWog93 6y ago
  I'd also like a citation for this. If anything, doctors emigrate from (third world) countries without socialised medicine to CANZUK nations, Germany etc. Also anecdata, but I have family that are dual Australian-US citizens living in the US, with top of the line private healthcare over there. When my great aunt required dialysis, they came back to Australia because the free system was better than what was on offer in the States. Apparently they'd pack patients over there into these rooms with vast arrays of machines, literally over a dozen to a room, and then bill the insurance company for thousands.
  - pattusk 6y ago
    It's called the two-tier system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tier_healthcare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tier_healthcare And it's well-known that private hospitals are better than public ones. They have better cancer survival rates for instance, as well as lesser risk of nosocomial infections [3]. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17371210/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17371210/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4824501/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4824501/ [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3143900/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3143900/
    - konjin 6y ago
      There are better cancer survival statistics in the US because the US does more pointless cancer tests, which they charge you for, to perform more invasive cancer therapy, which they charge you for, with the end result that total life expectancy for dying from cancer is around 1 year longer in the US compared to Australia and Europe, while quality of life is hugely lower with many more years under treatment in the US vs Australia and Europe. The question of 'is this treatment worth it' is never asked in the US because it obviously is since everyone who could tell you no will be paid if you say yes. In Europe and Australia the answer is 'it depends': is 1 extra year of puking your guts out worth 4 years of puking your guts out beforehand?
      - AussieWog93 6y ago
        His studies compared private hospitals in AU/NZ to public hospitals in AU/NZ, and showed that private patients are more likely to survive cancer than public patients. The studies weren't causal, though.

hayst4ck 6y ago

> The talented ones move abroad or work for private clinics and as a result the quality of care of public hospitals decreases. I don't doubt this is true, but I definitely would want to see a citation for this. Most Canadians and Brits I've met abroad have been consistently happy with their healthcare systems, so my anecdata certainly doesn't lead me to believe healthcare quality is low.

AussieWog93 6y ago
I'd also like a citation for this. If anything, doctors emigrate from (third world) countries without socialised medicine to CANZUK nations, Germany etc. Also anecdata, but I have family that are dual Australian-US citizens living in the US, with top of the line private healthcare over there. When my great aunt required dialysis, they came back to Australia because the free system was better than what was on offer in the States. Apparently they'd pack patients over there into these rooms with vast arrays of machines, literally over a dozen to a room, and then bill the insurance company for thousands.
- pattusk 6y ago
  It's called the two-tier system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tier_healthcare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-tier_healthcare And it's well-known that private hospitals are better than public ones. They have better cancer survival rates for instance, as well as lesser risk of nosocomial infections [3]. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17371210/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17371210/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4824501/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4824501/ [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3143900/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3143900/
  - konjin 6y ago
    There are better cancer survival statistics in the US because the US does more pointless cancer tests, which they charge you for, to perform more invasive cancer therapy, which they charge you for, with the end result that total life expectancy for dying from cancer is around 1 year longer in the US compared to Australia and Europe, while quality of life is hugely lower with many more years under treatment in the US vs Australia and Europe. The question of 'is this treatment worth it' is never asked in the US because it obviously is since everyone who could tell you no will be paid if you say yes. In Europe and Australia the answer is 'it depends': is 1 extra year of puking your guts out worth 4 years of puking your guts out beforehand?
    - AussieWog93 6y ago
      His studies compared private hospitals in AU/NZ to public hospitals in AU/NZ, and showed that private patients are more likely to survive cancer than public patients. The studies weren't causal, though.