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> I'm just starting to forge documents (...) The isn't even criminal to do because I'm not defrauding anyone Some might see sending forged documents as fraud;

by thih9 6y ago

> I'm just starting to forge documents (...) The isn't even criminal to do because I'm not defrauding anyone Some might see sending forged documents as fraud; you'd intentionally deceive an organisation for personal gain, i.e. more privacy. (TINLA) Just to be clear, I also want more privacy; at the same time I'd prefer a different approach, e.g. shaming plus boycotting.

kstrauser 6y ago
More practically, if you get caught then your kid probably gets banned from the league. This might be pretty hard to explain to a younger child in terms that would make them appreciate that you're doing it for the right reasons.
- water8 6y ago
  Do you think little league has the investigative powers of the FBI or something?
  - kstrauser 6y ago
    This can and does come up when, say, you have a team for 10 year olds and one of the kids looks like they drove themselves to practice. A coach can challenge the other team’s paperwork, in which case the challenged coach digs it out and everyone looks at the evidence. If it seems to be faked and the umpire agrees, the cheating team forfeits, and the kid’s parents (and possibly the coach if they were in on it) can be banned. No, Little League doesn’t do a top secret clearance check on every player. Individual players may be checked if it’s believed they’re cheating though.
alisonkisk 6y ago
That's not what fraud means. If that were fraud, then any lie to anyone would be fraud.
- thih9 6y ago
  > If that were fraud, then any lie to anyone would be fraud. Not really, unintentional and/or harmless lies wouldn't be fraud. > That's not what fraud means. Could you elaborate? What does fraud mean according to you?
  - throwawaygulf 6y ago
    >Not really, unintentional and/or harmless lies wouldn't be fraud. Yes really. Intentional or unintentional lies to anyone would be considered fraud if we go by your ideas. >Could you elaborate? What does fraud mean according to you? It's not what it means according to me, it's the definition according to the law: "with intent to defraud". Changing or redacting documents without the intention of defrauding is by definition not fraud. QED.
    - thih9 6y ago
      > Intentional or unintentional lies to anyone would be considered fraud if we go by your ideas. It seems you’ve misunderstood my earlier comment. > the definition according to the law: "with intent to defraud" Defining “fraud” with “defraud” feels a bit circular.

by thih9 6y ago

kstrauser 6y ago

More practically, if you get caught then your kid probably gets banned from the league. This might be pretty hard to explain to a younger child in terms that would make them appreciate that you're doing it for the right reasons.

water8 6y ago
Do you think little league has the investigative powers of the FBI or something?
- kstrauser 6y ago
  This can and does come up when, say, you have a team for 10 year olds and one of the kids looks like they drove themselves to practice. A coach can challenge the other team’s paperwork, in which case the challenged coach digs it out and everyone looks at the evidence. If it seems to be faked and the umpire agrees, the cheating team forfeits, and the kid’s parents (and possibly the coach if they were in on it) can be banned. No, Little League doesn’t do a top secret clearance check on every player. Individual players may be checked if it’s believed they’re cheating though.

alisonkisk 6y ago

That's not what fraud means. If that were fraud, then any lie to anyone would be fraud.

thih9 6y ago
> If that were fraud, then any lie to anyone would be fraud. Not really, unintentional and/or harmless lies wouldn't be fraud. > That's not what fraud means. Could you elaborate? What does fraud mean according to you?
- throwawaygulf 6y ago
  >Not really, unintentional and/or harmless lies wouldn't be fraud. Yes really. Intentional or unintentional lies to anyone would be considered fraud if we go by your ideas. >Could you elaborate? What does fraud mean according to you? It's not what it means according to me, it's the definition according to the law: "with intent to defraud". Changing or redacting documents without the intention of defrauding is by definition not fraud. QED.
  - thih9 6y ago
    > Intentional or unintentional lies to anyone would be considered fraud if we go by your ideas. It seems you’ve misunderstood my earlier comment. > the definition according to the law: "with intent to defraud" Defining “fraud” with “defraud” feels a bit circular.