3 ms·

If there is systemic racism then which system is racist? I think 99% of people nowadays would be fine fighting against such a system. Is it the school system, b

If there is systemic racism then which system is racist? I think 99% of people nowadays would be fine fighting against such a system. Is it the school system, bank system, the government?

jakelazaroff 6y ago
"Which system is racist?" is the wrong way to look at this. The point I'm trying to make is that there are many intertwined factors in play, and it may not be immediately apparent how some of them impact the issue. Let me expand a bit on the two factors I mentioned above, redlining and taxes. In the US, schools are generally funded by local taxes. On its own, that wouldn't seem to cause racial education disparities. But the neighborhoods in which people congregate are affected by the legacy of redlining, in which Black people were segregated into neighborhoods with lower property values. As a result, children in those neighborhoods receive worse educations, which makes them appear less "gifted" when combined with other students in higher grades. Those are of course not the only factors in play. But hopefully they illuminate how a seemingly benign program can entrench disparities created elsewhere.
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  I am a bit confused. You said it is systemic racism but can't provide a system (or systems) that are racist. I looked up the definition of systemic to ensure I wasn't missing something and it is "relating to a system, especially as opposed to a particular part." This clearly sounds to me that there needs to be a system involved. Perhaps systemic is not the correct word? In relation to taxes: I don't think you read tne article. It says the standards are determined at the school level. That means how well students do at a school in a wealthier area is irrelevant to how they do in a school in a poorer area. As for redlining, it is illegal. Even if you want to say there are historical issues that are still around today because of redlining, it wouldn't matter since the standards are school based not district widd based. If it was district wide or statewide I would generally agree with you that there could be issues related to that. I do think that funds should be distributed based on number of students (and perhaps a bit of a difference due to cost of living for teachers) rather than based on property tax rates in that area. I don't know how Massachusetts (or Boston specifically) handles this so it could already be done how I described.
- rayiner 6y ago
  > Let me expand a bit on the two factors I mentioned above, redlining and taxes. In the US, schools are generally funded by local taxes That’s not true. Only half of school funding comes from local taxes. The other half comes from state and federal sources, and are targeted to level the differences in local funding. Including state funding, many school districts have progressive funding (with poor districts getting more per student than rich ones). https://apps.urban.org/features/school-funding-do-poor-kids-get-fair-share/ https://apps.urban.org/features/school-funding-do-poor-kids-...
  - yellowapple 6y ago
    > Only half of school funding comes from local taxes. That still leaves a lot of wiggle room for school revenues, and a lot of influence on those revenues (and, correspondingly, student education) by residents' economic class. And further, just because the state/federal spending is "targeted to level the differences" doesn't mean it actually does so.
    - refenestrator 6y ago
      As a general rule, minority-heavy urban districts spend ~2x the $/student than middle-class white exurban districts in the same state. Definitely true in MA. Go check the numbers for your state, maybe it's an outlier, I don't know. Money goes less far in the city and they have more issues to deal with, but the $/student is not "inequitable" to borrow a word.
yellowapple 6y ago
All three of those are subsystems of a broader overall system that makes up American society. It's that overall system that perpetuates systemic racism through a combination of factors in the myriad subsystems. Addressing economic inequality along class lines would go a long way, since it's the economic system that has the strongest (or at least most tangible) impact right now. That doesn't do much to address lingering cultural issues, however.

If there is systemic racism then which system is racist? I think 99% of people nowadays would be fine fighting against such a system. Is it the school system, bank system, the government?

jakelazaroff 6y ago

"Which system is racist?" is the wrong way to look at this. The point I'm trying to make is that there are many intertwined factors in play, and it may not be immediately apparent how some of them impact the issue. Let me expand a bit on the two factors I mentioned above, redlining and taxes. In the US, schools are generally funded by local taxes. On its own, that wouldn't seem to cause racial education disparities. But the neighborhoods in which people congregate are affected by the legacy of redlining, in which Black people were segregated into neighborhoods with lower property values. As a result, children in those neighborhoods receive worse educations, which makes them appear less "gifted" when combined with other students in higher grades. Those are of course not the only factors in play. But hopefully they illuminate how a seemingly benign program can entrench disparities created elsewhere.

_-david-_ 6y ago
I am a bit confused. You said it is systemic racism but can't provide a system (or systems) that are racist. I looked up the definition of systemic to ensure I wasn't missing something and it is "relating to a system, especially as opposed to a particular part." This clearly sounds to me that there needs to be a system involved. Perhaps systemic is not the correct word? In relation to taxes: I don't think you read tne article. It says the standards are determined at the school level. That means how well students do at a school in a wealthier area is irrelevant to how they do in a school in a poorer area. As for redlining, it is illegal. Even if you want to say there are historical issues that are still around today because of redlining, it wouldn't matter since the standards are school based not district widd based. If it was district wide or statewide I would generally agree with you that there could be issues related to that. I do think that funds should be distributed based on number of students (and perhaps a bit of a difference due to cost of living for teachers) rather than based on property tax rates in that area. I don't know how Massachusetts (or Boston specifically) handles this so it could already be done how I described.
rayiner 6y ago
> Let me expand a bit on the two factors I mentioned above, redlining and taxes. In the US, schools are generally funded by local taxes That’s not true. Only half of school funding comes from local taxes. The other half comes from state and federal sources, and are targeted to level the differences in local funding. Including state funding, many school districts have progressive funding (with poor districts getting more per student than rich ones). https://apps.urban.org/features/school-funding-do-poor-kids-get-fair-share/ https://apps.urban.org/features/school-funding-do-poor-kids-...
- yellowapple 6y ago
  > Only half of school funding comes from local taxes. That still leaves a lot of wiggle room for school revenues, and a lot of influence on those revenues (and, correspondingly, student education) by residents' economic class. And further, just because the state/federal spending is "targeted to level the differences" doesn't mean it actually does so.
  - refenestrator 6y ago
    As a general rule, minority-heavy urban districts spend ~2x the $/student than middle-class white exurban districts in the same state. Definitely true in MA. Go check the numbers for your state, maybe it's an outlier, I don't know. Money goes less far in the city and they have more issues to deal with, but the $/student is not "inequitable" to borrow a word.

yellowapple 6y ago

All three of those are subsystems of a broader overall system that makes up American society. It's that overall system that perpetuates systemic racism through a combination of factors in the myriad subsystems. Addressing economic inequality along class lines would go a long way, since it's the economic system that has the strongest (or at least most tangible) impact right now. That doesn't do much to address lingering cultural issues, however.