5 ms·

I'm happy with macOS and the UI/UX on Windows and Linux still feels crap in comparison, not to mention the mandatory spyware on Microsoft's side of the fence.

fortran77 6y ago
> not to mention the mandatory spyware on Microsoft's side of the fence. I'm curious. What does Microsoft do that Apple doesn't? I'm a happy Windows 10 user. What should I be worried about?
- 8fingerlouie 6y ago
  Try taking a look at the "privacy" page under your live.com account. They know _everything_ you do on your computer. It's of course for "your benefit". They know every application you lauch, how long it was running for, and if it had input parameters, they also know which files you opened. They know what you search for (if you use IE/Edge), and lots of other "telemetry" data. Here you go : https://account.microsoft.com/privacy/activity-history https://account.microsoft.com/privacy/activity-history
  - smoldesu 6y ago
    How does that differ from the telemetry Apple uses?
    - 8fingerlouie 6y ago
      Microsoft collects all this information despite having answered "no" to every "do you want to" during setup. _If_ Apple uses telemetry, it tends to keep it "on device". Frequently visited locations ? Yup, on device. If you buy a new device, you restart your frequently visited locations. Anything AI ? Yup, also on device. The only exception i can think of is photos with iCloud enabled. If you store your photos in the cloud, Apple will process them for faces/locations/whatever AI use. That's the reason you can enter "car and dog" into the search field on your iPhone and get all images containing both. It's all here : https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/
  - AshWolfy 6y ago
    Except you can turn that off
    - 8fingerlouie 6y ago
      Not easily. I answered "NO" to everything during setup, and it still collects just about everything. And this is Windows 10 Pro. I'd much prefer an "opt in" scenario where _nothing_ is reported unless i specifically allow it. I'm aware that some things go hand in hand, like "find my device" requires my device to report it's location, but i can't remember EVER opting in to sending every app i open, filename of every file i open, every link i browse, to them.
      - AshWolfy 6y ago
        I would double check if you turned it off. I did and there is no information there. I would much prefer if it was opt in, but that is a trade off im willing to make.
smoldesu 6y ago
I think the Windows UX is pretty dogshit overall, but part of the appeal of Linux is how varied each user experience can be. You're expected to tailor a workflow that works for you, rather than adjusting an existing one to fit your needs. For some people, OSX just "clicks", but that's the case for every operating system.
root_axis 6y ago
I take the opposite view. macOS UX sucks. A few examples off the top of my head: I regularly find myself frustrated that there is no volume mixer for applications, spotlight search is atrocious and often returns different results for the exact same query, finder is also clunky as hell and won't allow me to do simple things like directly input a directory path string, the search feature also behaves completely counterintuitively by performing a global search rather than limiting the scope of the search to the directory you're in, trying to get macOS to permanently show hidden files is a chore and resets after every update, the touch bar is horrid and regularly causes me to accidentally take actions I did not intend, updates are often very unstable and fraught with world breaking bugs and issues that prevent me from doing my work, xcode is generally a nightmare and a mandatory one... the list goes on and on. Linux and Windows might not look as pretty but they are far more functional with respect to accomplishing my work.
- kitsunesoba 6y ago
  Finder can go directly to paths with Go > Go to Folder… (Command+Shift+G) and search scope can be changed to current directory in Finder preferences. Hidden file visibility can be toggled with Command+Shift+. in both Finder windows and open/save dialogs.
- threeseed 6y ago
  Within Finder Preferences there is a dropdown that asks you when performing a search whether to use global or current directory. And for volume mixer this exists: https://github.com/kyleneideck/BackgroundMusic https://github.com/kyleneideck/BackgroundMusic I have to say it really doesn't seem like you spent much effort trying to actually fix your issues.
  - thefz 6y ago
    Forced to install third party software for a basic OS functionality? Nah.
- symlinkk 6y ago
  Agreed, here are some more things I’ve noticed weird about macOS: * When a Macbook is plugged into an external monitor, if you close its lid, it will only stay awake if the power cord is plugged in (otherwise it goes to sleep). There is no notification that tells the user this, you’re just supposed to know it I guess. * On the Displays page of System Preferences, the only way to get it to re-scan for connected monitors is to hold down Alt, which makes a hidden button appear called “Detect Displays”. Again you’re just supposed to know this. * The green “traffic light” button in the title bar makes the current window fullscreen instead of maximizing it. I never see people use full screen in real life, they always maximize everything * When in the fullscreen mode mentioned previously, the Cmd ` shortcut to switch between windows of the same program doesn’t work
8fingerlouie 6y ago
Right there in the boat with you. I've used Linux extensively in the past (and OS/2, BeOS and more. Even spent a few years as assistant head developer to a deceased linux distribution), and MacOS X just works. Yes there are usually bugs in new major versions, but _nothing_ comes close in integration, be that between apps on the machine itself, or various devices in the Apple eco system. Yes, you can do it all with different apps on different platforms, but until you've been "all in" you have no idea what i'm talking about. Maybe you have an app that will extend your desktop on your tablet, now right click the desktop and select "scan document with iphone" and use your phone to scan a document directly to the desktop. Need a password on your phone that is only on your computer ? fine, select it on your computer and paste it on your iphone. No special keys involved, it just works(tm) No other platform offers that amount of integration. considering that Apple is in the hardware business and relatively uninterested in my personal data, i also have a tendency to trust them with my data far more than i trust anything Microsoft or Google. I've been a very happy Mac user since 2005, and nothing i've seen in recent years has done anything to change my mind. Whatever "obstacles" people run into, they somehow miss me completely. I still run homebrew or macports on my machine, install just whatever i like, and everything works as well as it ever did.
- katbyte 6y ago
  It wasn’t until I had a MacBook, iPhone, iPad and macmini where I really appreciated how the ecosystem just worked, and finally started using iCloud
thefz 6y ago
Every time I look at MacOS (been using it daily for 12+ years) I still feel like it's a toy OS not made for any real work.

fortran77 6y ago

> not to mention the mandatory spyware on Microsoft's side of the fence. I'm curious. What does Microsoft do that Apple doesn't? I'm a happy Windows 10 user. What should I be worried about?

8fingerlouie 6y ago
Try taking a look at the "privacy" page under your live.com account. They know _everything_ you do on your computer. It's of course for "your benefit". They know every application you lauch, how long it was running for, and if it had input parameters, they also know which files you opened. They know what you search for (if you use IE/Edge), and lots of other "telemetry" data. Here you go : https://account.microsoft.com/privacy/activity-history https://account.microsoft.com/privacy/activity-history
- smoldesu 6y ago
  How does that differ from the telemetry Apple uses?
  - 8fingerlouie 6y ago
    Microsoft collects all this information despite having answered "no" to every "do you want to" during setup. _If_ Apple uses telemetry, it tends to keep it "on device". Frequently visited locations ? Yup, on device. If you buy a new device, you restart your frequently visited locations. Anything AI ? Yup, also on device. The only exception i can think of is photos with iCloud enabled. If you store your photos in the cloud, Apple will process them for faces/locations/whatever AI use. That's the reason you can enter "car and dog" into the search field on your iPhone and get all images containing both. It's all here : https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/
- AshWolfy 6y ago
  Except you can turn that off
  - 8fingerlouie 6y ago
    Not easily. I answered "NO" to everything during setup, and it still collects just about everything. And this is Windows 10 Pro. I'd much prefer an "opt in" scenario where _nothing_ is reported unless i specifically allow it. I'm aware that some things go hand in hand, like "find my device" requires my device to report it's location, but i can't remember EVER opting in to sending every app i open, filename of every file i open, every link i browse, to them.
    - AshWolfy 6y ago
      I would double check if you turned it off. I did and there is no information there. I would much prefer if it was opt in, but that is a trade off im willing to make.

smoldesu 6y ago

I think the Windows UX is pretty dogshit overall, but part of the appeal of Linux is how varied each user experience can be. You're expected to tailor a workflow that works for you, rather than adjusting an existing one to fit your needs. For some people, OSX just "clicks", but that's the case for every operating system.

root_axis 6y ago

I take the opposite view. macOS UX sucks. A few examples off the top of my head: I regularly find myself frustrated that there is no volume mixer for applications, spotlight search is atrocious and often returns different results for the exact same query, finder is also clunky as hell and won't allow me to do simple things like directly input a directory path string, the search feature also behaves completely counterintuitively by performing a global search rather than limiting the scope of the search to the directory you're in, trying to get macOS to permanently show hidden files is a chore and resets after every update, the touch bar is horrid and regularly causes me to accidentally take actions I did not intend, updates are often very unstable and fraught with world breaking bugs and issues that prevent me from doing my work, xcode is generally a nightmare and a mandatory one... the list goes on and on. Linux and Windows might not look as pretty but they are far more functional with respect to accomplishing my work.

kitsunesoba 6y ago
Finder can go directly to paths with Go > Go to Folder… (Command+Shift+G) and search scope can be changed to current directory in Finder preferences. Hidden file visibility can be toggled with Command+Shift+. in both Finder windows and open/save dialogs.
threeseed 6y ago
Within Finder Preferences there is a dropdown that asks you when performing a search whether to use global or current directory. And for volume mixer this exists: https://github.com/kyleneideck/BackgroundMusic https://github.com/kyleneideck/BackgroundMusic I have to say it really doesn't seem like you spent much effort trying to actually fix your issues.
- thefz 6y ago
  Forced to install third party software for a basic OS functionality? Nah.
symlinkk 6y ago
Agreed, here are some more things I’ve noticed weird about macOS: * When a Macbook is plugged into an external monitor, if you close its lid, it will only stay awake if the power cord is plugged in (otherwise it goes to sleep). There is no notification that tells the user this, you’re just supposed to know it I guess. * On the Displays page of System Preferences, the only way to get it to re-scan for connected monitors is to hold down Alt, which makes a hidden button appear called “Detect Displays”. Again you’re just supposed to know this. * The green “traffic light” button in the title bar makes the current window fullscreen instead of maximizing it. I never see people use full screen in real life, they always maximize everything * When in the fullscreen mode mentioned previously, the Cmd ` shortcut to switch between windows of the same program doesn’t work

8fingerlouie 6y ago

Right there in the boat with you. I've used Linux extensively in the past (and OS/2, BeOS and more. Even spent a few years as assistant head developer to a deceased linux distribution), and MacOS X just works. Yes there are usually bugs in new major versions, but _nothing_ comes close in integration, be that between apps on the machine itself, or various devices in the Apple eco system. Yes, you can do it all with different apps on different platforms, but until you've been "all in" you have no idea what i'm talking about. Maybe you have an app that will extend your desktop on your tablet, now right click the desktop and select "scan document with iphone" and use your phone to scan a document directly to the desktop. Need a password on your phone that is only on your computer ? fine, select it on your computer and paste it on your iphone. No special keys involved, it just works(tm) No other platform offers that amount of integration. considering that Apple is in the hardware business and relatively uninterested in my personal data, i also have a tendency to trust them with my data far more than i trust anything Microsoft or Google. I've been a very happy Mac user since 2005, and nothing i've seen in recent years has done anything to change my mind. Whatever "obstacles" people run into, they somehow miss me completely. I still run homebrew or macports on my machine, install just whatever i like, and everything works as well as it ever did.

katbyte 6y ago
It wasn’t until I had a MacBook, iPhone, iPad and macmini where I really appreciated how the ecosystem just worked, and finally started using iCloud

thefz 6y ago

Every time I look at MacOS (been using it daily for 12+ years) I still feel like it's a toy OS not made for any real work.