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I hope Rohloff is aware of the irony that "No slogans, just facts" is a slogan. While I admire companies who make products that last forever, most people aren'

I hope Rohloff is aware of the irony that "No slogans, just facts" is a slogan. While I admire companies who make products that last forever, most people aren't that interested in spending a ton of money on something that will last forever. If you're sure you're going to be using your bike for 70+ years, $1000 isn't a bad investment. If you're like most people, you probably bike once every few months, if that, and the cheap US/Chinese/Japanese products are probably fine. It's not fair to compare companies that are competing on price with companies that are competing on quality. For most people, "ok" and "cheap" are good enough.

cromulent 15y ago
> It's not fair to compare companies that are competing on price with companies that are competing on quality. For this particular consumer, in the marketplace, it's fair enough :) And if it's unfair, bad luck.
- marknutter 15y ago
  Let me rephrase: it doesn't make any sense to compare a company that's competing on price with a company that's competing on value. They are both filling different niches in the marketplace.
  - cromulent 15y ago
    Thanks, but I think that just confuses me more. To me, value is directly related to price. From my perspective it makes sense to compare companies in order that I understand the differences between them. I would have to try hard not to compare them. Sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse. In relation to the point about Rohloff as a metaphor for the Germany vs America emulation, I think the comparison would be quite useful.
jdietrich 15y ago
> If you're like most people, you probably bike once every few months If you're like most Americans. In much of Europe, cycling is seen primarily as a mode of transport rather than a leisure activity. Rohloff's target customer rides several thousand kilometres a year, often because cycling is their sole mode of transport or because they live long-term as a cycle tourist. There's a term in the bicycle trade, "Bicycle Shaped Object". It refers to bicycles built as cheaply as possible for exactly the customer you have in mind - people who ride a few times a year, usually buying a bike on impulse at a supermarket. Most BSOs are built to such a poor standard that they are unsafe to ride in traffic and will last no more than a few hundred kilometres. To a lot of people in the bike business, the BSO represents everything they loathe in the world. The bicycle is a machine of pure liberation - a mode of transport that is practically free, that prolongs your life, that doesn't harm the environment and that helps you better engage with the world around you. The BSO crudely imitates the bicycle, selling a vision of freedom and health to people who will never experience either. I'm not a leftist, in fact my politics border on Thatcherism, but I believe that business exists to serve humanity and not vice-versa. We get the sort of business we demand. Personally, I prefer businesses that treat their employees properly and do right by their customers, that value sustainability and longevity, that seek to serve their community. Rohloff care about cycling and see profit as something that allows them to continue doing what they love. If that isn't worthy of admiration then stop the world, I want to get off.

cromulent 15y ago

> It's not fair to compare companies that are competing on price with companies that are competing on quality. For this particular consumer, in the marketplace, it's fair enough :) And if it's unfair, bad luck.

marknutter 15y ago
Let me rephrase: it doesn't make any sense to compare a company that's competing on price with a company that's competing on value. They are both filling different niches in the marketplace.
- cromulent 15y ago
  Thanks, but I think that just confuses me more. To me, value is directly related to price. From my perspective it makes sense to compare companies in order that I understand the differences between them. I would have to try hard not to compare them. Sorry, I'm not trying to be obtuse. In relation to the point about Rohloff as a metaphor for the Germany vs America emulation, I think the comparison would be quite useful.

jdietrich 15y ago

> If you're like most people, you probably bike once every few months If you're like most Americans. In much of Europe, cycling is seen primarily as a mode of transport rather than a leisure activity. Rohloff's target customer rides several thousand kilometres a year, often because cycling is their sole mode of transport or because they live long-term as a cycle tourist. There's a term in the bicycle trade, "Bicycle Shaped Object". It refers to bicycles built as cheaply as possible for exactly the customer you have in mind - people who ride a few times a year, usually buying a bike on impulse at a supermarket. Most BSOs are built to such a poor standard that they are unsafe to ride in traffic and will last no more than a few hundred kilometres. To a lot of people in the bike business, the BSO represents everything they loathe in the world. The bicycle is a machine of pure liberation - a mode of transport that is practically free, that prolongs your life, that doesn't harm the environment and that helps you better engage with the world around you. The BSO crudely imitates the bicycle, selling a vision of freedom and health to people who will never experience either. I'm not a leftist, in fact my politics border on Thatcherism, but I believe that business exists to serve humanity and not vice-versa. We get the sort of business we demand. Personally, I prefer businesses that treat their employees properly and do right by their customers, that value sustainability and longevity, that seek to serve their community. Rohloff care about cycling and see profit as something that allows them to continue doing what they love. If that isn't worthy of admiration then stop the world, I want to get off.