6 ms·

> But suspending gifted education programs expressly based on the racial makeup of the kids in the program is illegal discrimination, plain and simple. Just ru

> But suspending gifted education programs expressly based on the racial makeup of the kids in the program is illegal discrimination, plain and simple. Just running the program is a legal risk.

loveistheanswer 6y ago
Were the students selected for the advanced program selected based on the color of their skin, or their academic ability?
- superflit 6y ago
  You can't ask it in 2021. It is wrong think and hate speech. Please go back to re-education camp.
  - snicksnak 6y ago
    No that's essentially the core of the issue. If they were selected based on their race, it's racial discrimination. If the classes were suspended based on the student's race, it's racial discrimination, plain and simple.
    - ttt0 6y ago
      > plain and simple Unfortunately it's not in 2021.
  - dang 6y ago
    Please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
_-david-_ 6y ago
It would only be a legal risk if they were putting kids in the program based on race. This does not seem to be the case. It just so happens to be that a disproportionate amount of whites and Asians made it into the program.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  Why do you conclude that it doesn’t seem to be the case? There are a ton of known second-order causes of education inequality like redlining, tax disparities, etc. It’s highly likely that the disparities in this program happen because of racism, even if no one sat down and said “we should admit mostly white and Asian kids”.
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    There is no evidence that there was any racism involved. I wouldn't say with 100% certainty there was no racism, but until anyone can show any evidence of racism I will not jump to that conclusion. There is a perfectly logical (and non-racist) reason for blacks and Hispanics to not make it into the gifted program as frequently as their white and Asian peers and that is they, in average, have lower grades. People see the outcome is disproportionate and assume racism. Instead of looking at the evidence to see why it happened they look at the outcome and try to fit their preferred narrative into it. If there is racism which causes students to have a difficult life which then causes them to do worse in school and doing worse in school means the student won't be accepted into the gifted program then I do not consider the gifted program admission to be racist. The solution should be to help those in a bad situation (regardless if it was caused by racism or something else) so anybody who is disadvantaged can be on an equal playing field and meet the requirements. There are a lot of poor white students. They likely struggle in school because of that. I don't think the solution would be to make it easier for those poor whites to make it into the gifted program just because they are poor. And yet many people would make that argument for blacks and Hispanics. Removing the gifted program because you don't like the races who make it in is racist.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      The problem is that the people who benefit from the situation are never interested in identifying and fixing the "bad situations" until things like this happen. They're fine accepting a system that privileges their own children at the expense of others, and only when their children might be affected do they become ostensible advocates for looking at the situation holistically.

> But suspending gifted education programs expressly based on the racial makeup of the kids in the program is illegal discrimination, plain and simple. Just running the program is a legal risk.

loveistheanswer 6y ago

Were the students selected for the advanced program selected based on the color of their skin, or their academic ability?

superflit 6y ago
You can't ask it in 2021. It is wrong think and hate speech. Please go back to re-education camp.
- snicksnak 6y ago
  No that's essentially the core of the issue. If they were selected based on their race, it's racial discrimination. If the classes were suspended based on the student's race, it's racial discrimination, plain and simple.
  - ttt0 6y ago
    > plain and simple Unfortunately it's not in 2021.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

_-david-_ 6y ago

It would only be a legal risk if they were putting kids in the program based on race. This does not seem to be the case. It just so happens to be that a disproportionate amount of whites and Asians made it into the program.

jakelazaroff 6y ago
Why do you conclude that it doesn’t seem to be the case? There are a ton of known second-order causes of education inequality like redlining, tax disparities, etc. It’s highly likely that the disparities in this program happen because of racism, even if no one sat down and said “we should admit mostly white and Asian kids”.
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  There is no evidence that there was any racism involved. I wouldn't say with 100% certainty there was no racism, but until anyone can show any evidence of racism I will not jump to that conclusion. There is a perfectly logical (and non-racist) reason for blacks and Hispanics to not make it into the gifted program as frequently as their white and Asian peers and that is they, in average, have lower grades. People see the outcome is disproportionate and assume racism. Instead of looking at the evidence to see why it happened they look at the outcome and try to fit their preferred narrative into it. If there is racism which causes students to have a difficult life which then causes them to do worse in school and doing worse in school means the student won't be accepted into the gifted program then I do not consider the gifted program admission to be racist. The solution should be to help those in a bad situation (regardless if it was caused by racism or something else) so anybody who is disadvantaged can be on an equal playing field and meet the requirements. There are a lot of poor white students. They likely struggle in school because of that. I don't think the solution would be to make it easier for those poor whites to make it into the gifted program just because they are poor. And yet many people would make that argument for blacks and Hispanics. Removing the gifted program because you don't like the races who make it in is racist.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    The problem is that the people who benefit from the situation are never interested in identifying and fixing the "bad situations" until things like this happen. They're fine accepting a system that privileges their own children at the expense of others, and only when their children might be affected do they become ostensible advocates for looking at the situation holistically.