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As a Turkish immigrant in Germany, I really find the word "expat" irritating. Why should I make it explicitly clear that my immigration happened on my own terms
by egeozcan 6y ago
As a Turkish immigrant in Germany, I really find the word "expat" irritating. Why should I make it explicitly clear that my immigration happened on my own terms?
Apart from that, the sheer amount of Turkish immigrants who left the country in the last decade (including me) are not Erdoğan supporters. However, many of us refrain from heavy criticism as we occasionally go to Turkey to visit our relatives and we don't want some specific person having a bad day destroying our lives.
So you usually hear the other side and may mistakenly think that "expat Turks" support Erdoğan big time. The majority of votes he gets from Turkish immigrants are the Turks who left the country more than a couple of decades ago and partly, their children. The "why" has a complicated answer that touches religion, demographic dynamics and acceptance in society.
- cblconfederate 6y ago> many of us refrain from heavy criticism If the people who can speak up don't speak up then how is change ever to be expected? This is btw not what usually happens in such situations (immigrants fleeing authoritarianism are generally vocal against it)
- waheoo 6y agoAn American making statements about standing up and speaking out against oppression and free speech is fucking laughable these days. You're all stuck in a bubble and can't even see that your entire tech industry is pulling a fast one over liberty and democracy.
- LegitShady 6y agoThe greatest threat to liberty and democracy today are the big tech companies, agreed.
- egeozcan 6y agoWhy should I put the security of my family in jeopardy hopelessly trying to improve a country that I already gave up on? I love Germany, I'd rather work improving where I'm living, which is something I'm already trying to do, instead of getting stuck in the past.
- ArkanExplorer 6y agoGermans, and Europeans generally, have put the security of themselves and their families in jeopardy over thousands of years to live in the free and open societies that you are now taking for granted.
- notsureaboutpg 6y agoHe's not taking Germany for granted by not being a vocal Erdogan opponent. Also, many Turks have done the same sacrifice for open societies, but just because you sacrifice doesn't mean you get what you sacrificed for.
- mclightning 6y agoFTFY : Germans, and Europeans generally, have put the security of people of color in Africa, India, Americas and their families in jeopardy over half a thousand year to democratise systems across their population to live in free and open societies that we are now able to migrate to.
- sgift 6y agoSo, the revolutions in Europe (which lead to democratization) happened because of whatever happened in Africa, India and the Americas? Or what do you mean?
- mclightning 6y ago...whatever happened in Africa...(tumbleweed rolls by)
- sudosysgen 6y agoThey were a big factor in making such models sustainable and widespread, yes.
- cblconfederate 6y agoAll the former ottoman empire states (which revolted) were impoverished themselves Perhaps it would help, if making a historical claim, to at least reference what's the factual basis for it.
- Ozzie_osman 6y agoI definitely know Turks who are vocal against their regime, but I understand that many cannot afford to be. This isn't like the old days, before social media. Now, anything you say on social media can get you or your relatives back home on trouble. PS Not Turkish but from another country with a regime that retaliates against critics.
- cblconfederate 6y agoI agree with that, and this is a huge regression we didn't even have 3 decades ago. It should be talked more
- treszkai 6y ago> immigrants fleeing authoritarianism are generally vocal against it There's a huge selection bias here (the immigrants most visible are those who speak up), so I wouldn't be so certain about this. My prior is that people don't give a shit about what's happening elsewhere, and their life is certainly easier if they don't _publish_ their controversial views. (Even if that controversial view is shared knowledge among immigrants, it's usually not common knowledge.)
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- _fat_santa 6y agoI can give some background on this, I immigrated from Russia to the US when I was 5 and I still have a ton of extended family that lives there. Do I like Putin or what Russia is doing? Hell no. But at the same time I'm not going to saying anything negative in public about Russia. If I got on the Russian governments radar forget what they will do to me, I live in America, what will they do to my Grandmother, my uncles, my nieces, my cousins? I don't know what they will do, and for that reason I cannot risk saying anything. The same applies in places like Turkey, China, etc. Yeah you might not like what the govt there is doing, but at the same time you can't risk speaking up and having the blowback taken out on your family that still lives there.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- cblconfederate 6y agoOn the other hand public pressure from abroad does work , and since politics tends to run in families, their families are at risk anyway. I can tell from the experience of my country (greece) during the dictatorial regime 50 years ago. The greeks who were persecuted / emigrated to europe (France mostly) were very vocal about the (US-backed) regime and drew international condemnation, especially the high-profile ones. It certainly contributed to its eventual downfall a few years later, but importantly it helped the swift return of democracy, because there was already a group of people who were politically organized abroad.
- monadic6 6y agoJudging by the US, speaking up doesn't matter at all and can only hurt you and your family.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Bakary 6y agoIronically people sometimes intentionally use the word expat to avoid the "western people are expats, non-westerners are immigrants" terminology trap