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Only apps that do this sort of tracking have to ask. Otherwise there is no need. Does that make sense?

zimmen 6y ago
We don’t know whether Apple’s apps will ask yet do we? Not until the next iOS update. And when an app doesn’t ask, does that just mean there is no tracking going on or is it some nefarious scheme to achieve who knows what? The nefarious option will probably become most popular on the interwebs, obviously. I can already see the HN posts: “Pages caught loading an asset from apple.com, violating their own tracking policy! Is Apple doomed?”
- mqrs 6y ago
  Check out your iPhone’s Settings > Privacy and scroll to the very bottom. You’ll see “Analytics & Improvements” and “Apple Advertising”, which both contain toggles and details about the data that has been gathered so far. There was also an iOS update in the past where the onboarding flow asked me to grant these permissions, though I vaguely remember seeing it on every major iOS version update. Now, that’s not to say that the iPhone setting guarantees that Apple is not up to something sketchy. We can’t tell what’s going on under the hood or in their servers, but if we really wanted to be extremists about privacy, then we have to resort to apps that we’ve built and self-hosted ourselves.
wayneftw 6y ago
So who investigates whether Apple’s apps do this sort of tracking or not?
- herodotus 6y ago
  Story removed as not useful
  - justapassenger 6y ago
    Not stealing user’s private PDF file during crash is very low bar for privacy. I agree that Apple cares about this stuff, but your story doesn’t really show it.
  - wayneftw 6y ago
    > Well, I worked at Apple for about NN years. ... If Apple was claiming it cared about privacy, but was secretly doing the opposite, I think this fact would not remain secret. > I will give one more concrete example: the crash reporter system would send me a detailed stack trace, but NOT the original document. I was told explicitly that this was done for reasons of privacy ... I had no idea who the user was or what was in the document. So you’ve had access to everything at Apple in your long career there, investigated it deeply the whole time and you’ve found nothing out of sorts. Got it. This jives with what I’ve read about Apple’s internal culture - that there’s no compartmentalization at all and employees can roam freely around the halls collecting whatever information they want from any department. I feel good now that you’ve investigated your own company and found no issues! Police unions should look into using this tactic of self-investigation. It seems quite effective! (I hope I protected your privacy by removing the irrelevant parts of your comment. Sorry I had to paste them in there but you deleted them and then my response made no sense. Also, sorry to have to use all of that sarcasm but you could’ve just answered the question. It’s Apple. Apple investigates if Apple apps for doing any sort of improper data collection.)
    - herodotus 6y ago
      OK, I get the point, which is why I removed the story. Do you mind deleting what I wrote from your comment?
      - wayneftw 6y ago
        I removed most of it. I guess email dang if you feel that what’s left is too sensitive.
    - dang 6y ago
      Personal attacks will get you banned here. We've had to warn you about this more than once before. Please don't do it again. (Edit: I got this part wrong - sorry wayneftw! It's particularly bad that you bullied another user into removing what was probably an interesting story. That makes the thread strictly worse, whether or not you felt like it answered your specific question.) Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the spirit of this site more to heart? The intention is curious conversation—not bashing other people or their positions, even if you feel like they have wrong positions.
  - jeswin 6y ago
    Apple's stand on privacy is quite flexible at the top of the pyramid - for example in China they were happy to axe hundreds of VPN apps which were allowing people in HK and mainland China access to content without risking being thrown into jails. So I am unable to infer that Apple consistently puts privacy (and the right to privacy) ahead of profit.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      To be fair, I strongly suspect the various VPN apps out there are doing Facebook-style shenanigans with user activity. Especially the free ones.
      - jeswin 6y ago
        It was a blanket ban on all VPNs. Their exact statement said: "We are writing to notify that your application will be removed from the China App Store because it includes content that is illegal in China..."
    - jasonaten 6y ago
      Because the company follows the law? (To be clear, I'm not suggesting China is righteous, just that Apple still has to follow laws, even if it doesn't like them)
      - 2cb 6y ago
        Exactly. Apple's choice here is either follow Chinese law or get their devices and services banned from China. The CCP is awful in many ways but I can understand Apple preferring to follow the law rather than lose their second biggest market.
- zepto 6y ago
  All kinds of people. You frequently see analysis and reverse engineering of Apple’s app and network traffic here on HN.

We don’t know whether Apple’s apps will ask yet do we? Not until the next iOS update. And when an app doesn’t ask, does that just mean there is no tracking going on or is it some nefarious scheme to achieve who knows what? The nefarious option will probably become most popular on the interwebs, obviously. I can already see the HN posts: “Pages caught loading an asset from apple.com, violating their own tracking policy! Is Apple doomed?”

mqrs 6y ago
Check out your iPhone’s Settings > Privacy and scroll to the very bottom. You’ll see “Analytics & Improvements” and “Apple Advertising”, which both contain toggles and details about the data that has been gathered so far. There was also an iOS update in the past where the onboarding flow asked me to grant these permissions, though I vaguely remember seeing it on every major iOS version update. Now, that’s not to say that the iPhone setting guarantees that Apple is not up to something sketchy. We can’t tell what’s going on under the hood or in their servers, but if we really wanted to be extremists about privacy, then we have to resort to apps that we’ve built and self-hosted ourselves.

wayneftw 6y ago

So who investigates whether Apple’s apps do this sort of tracking or not?

herodotus 6y ago
Story removed as not useful
- justapassenger 6y ago
  Not stealing user’s private PDF file during crash is very low bar for privacy. I agree that Apple cares about this stuff, but your story doesn’t really show it.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  > Well, I worked at Apple for about NN years. ... If Apple was claiming it cared about privacy, but was secretly doing the opposite, I think this fact would not remain secret. > I will give one more concrete example: the crash reporter system would send me a detailed stack trace, but NOT the original document. I was told explicitly that this was done for reasons of privacy ... I had no idea who the user was or what was in the document. So you’ve had access to everything at Apple in your long career there, investigated it deeply the whole time and you’ve found nothing out of sorts. Got it. This jives with what I’ve read about Apple’s internal culture - that there’s no compartmentalization at all and employees can roam freely around the halls collecting whatever information they want from any department. I feel good now that you’ve investigated your own company and found no issues! Police unions should look into using this tactic of self-investigation. It seems quite effective! (I hope I protected your privacy by removing the irrelevant parts of your comment. Sorry I had to paste them in there but you deleted them and then my response made no sense. Also, sorry to have to use all of that sarcasm but you could’ve just answered the question. It’s Apple. Apple investigates if Apple apps for doing any sort of improper data collection.)
  - herodotus 6y ago
    OK, I get the point, which is why I removed the story. Do you mind deleting what I wrote from your comment?
    - wayneftw 6y ago
      I removed most of it. I guess email dang if you feel that what’s left is too sensitive.
  - dang 6y ago
    Personal attacks will get you banned here. We've had to warn you about this more than once before. Please don't do it again. (Edit: I got this part wrong - sorry wayneftw! It's particularly bad that you bullied another user into removing what was probably an interesting story. That makes the thread strictly worse, whether or not you felt like it answered your specific question.) Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the spirit of this site more to heart? The intention is curious conversation—not bashing other people or their positions, even if you feel like they have wrong positions.
- jeswin 6y ago
  Apple's stand on privacy is quite flexible at the top of the pyramid - for example in China they were happy to axe hundreds of VPN apps which were allowing people in HK and mainland China access to content without risking being thrown into jails. So I am unable to infer that Apple consistently puts privacy (and the right to privacy) ahead of profit.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    To be fair, I strongly suspect the various VPN apps out there are doing Facebook-style shenanigans with user activity. Especially the free ones.
    - jeswin 6y ago
      It was a blanket ban on all VPNs. Their exact statement said: "We are writing to notify that your application will be removed from the China App Store because it includes content that is illegal in China..."
  - jasonaten 6y ago
    Because the company follows the law? (To be clear, I'm not suggesting China is righteous, just that Apple still has to follow laws, even if it doesn't like them)
    - 2cb 6y ago
      Exactly. Apple's choice here is either follow Chinese law or get their devices and services banned from China. The CCP is awful in many ways but I can understand Apple preferring to follow the law rather than lose their second biggest market.
zepto 6y ago
All kinds of people. You frequently see analysis and reverse engineering of Apple’s app and network traffic here on HN.