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Funny that you compare YPG to ISIS. YPG/YPJ (alongside others in SDF) where some of the most successful militia in fighting back against ISIS (so much that ther

Funny that you compare YPG to ISIS. YPG/YPJ (alongside others in SDF) where some of the most successful militia in fighting back against ISIS (so much that there where some strategic co-operation with US forces in fighting ISIS). They also generally fight for Kurdish rights and, ethnic pluralism in general (saved several Yazidi towns from ISIS for example), women's rights and democracy (including forms of local direct democracy seen few other places). The reason PKK and/or YPG/YPJ is on some terrorist lists is mainly because Turkish government is against Kurdish rights in general. Turkey tend to claim any group fighting for Kurdish independence and/or rights to be terrorists. So if they're ”terrorists” in the same way apartheid South-Africa saw Nelson Mandela, ANC and others fighting apartheid as ”terrorists”.

kobasa 6y ago
>The reason PKK and/or YPG/YPJ is on some terrorist lists is mainly because Turkish government is against Kurdish rights in general. So you're just gonna omit the fact that they have a decades long history of bombing and killing innocent civilians including kids?
- esperent 6y ago
  I've tried to find information about this, and all I can find is that Turkey claimed they committed war crimes, but when the US and UN investigated they couldn't find any supporting evidence.
- _bohm 6y ago
  The PKK was formed in reaction to intense oppression of the Kurdish people by the Turkish State. The Kurdish language and traditional garb were banned, and Kurdish history was not allowed to be taught. The Turkish State also burned Kurdish villages and slaughtered many Kurds. None of this is to say that the PKK has not committed acts which would surely offend western sensibilities, but simply slapping the "terrorist" label on them and calling it a day is not a nuanced way to approach the discussion.
  - roadbeats 6y ago
    I always felt surprised how people are when they throw such "facts" very confidently. What's your source ? Have you been there yourself? How did you end up convincing yourself to know the truth so well that you can transmit to others without leaving any room for discussion? This reminds me something I quite dislike: the tone of fascism. It's widespread like a virus these days.
  - jmacjmac 6y ago
    > The Kurdish language and traditional garb were banned How about nowadays? Nothing is banned yet we still see PKK bombing public buses in our cities. Seriously, when can we call these guys "terrorist"? These problems were real, yes, Kurdish language was banned, people couldn't say they were Kurdish without any pressure back then but these days are no more. Does "cultural ban happened in the past" justify what PKK is doing now?
    - _bohm 6y ago
      Given that I'm very far removed from these events, I don't think it's my place to make strong judgements about what is and isn't justified in what has obviously been a very long and bitter conflict. That being said, I don't think the PKK explicitly uses these past offenses to justify their continued activity in the conflict. My understanding is that they continue fighting because the Turkish Kurds still lack any meaningful political representation, they oppose Erdogan's push towards Islamic national identity, and because the Turkish State continues to carry out military strikes against Kurdish targets outside Turkey's borders. I'm by no means an authority on this topic so feel free to correct me if I've made any incorrect statements. It sounds like you're much close to this conflict than I am, in which case my heart goes out to you in wishing for a peaceful resolution to all of this.
      - jmacjmac 6y ago
        Just to clarify, %20-25 of the population is Kurdish in Turkey. In elections, PKK affiliated legal party gets half of the Kurdish votes and other half goes to Erdogan roughly. So, there is no single Kurdish identity in Turkey, more like split between these two. Ofcourse, there is a few percent which is not among these two. So, if you ask is there any Kurdish people in the government, yes there are a lot. Erdogan gets half of the Kurdish votes, so we can say Kurdish Erdogan supporters have enough representation. PKK affiliated party is not in government, because they didn't get enough votes but they are in parliament ofcourse representing their %10 votes. I don't think PKK cares about Erdogan's Islamic Turkey dream. You don't see PKK or it's legal party saying anything about it in Turkey, I think they mention it only when they are talking to western media :) In Turkey, there is secular opposition which is rougly %40-50, they stand against Erdogan's Islamic push but they still lack of %50 + 1 votes to dethrone Erdogan unfortunately. PKK says they want federalism for Kurdish cities, you can advocate for that, it's okay, their legal party is doing that, that's fine. But when you're holding guns and saying my way or high way, that's a big no. So, if they really care about democratic, secular Turkey, they can put guns aside, get together with opposition in Turkey.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

kobasa 6y ago

>The reason PKK and/or YPG/YPJ is on some terrorist lists is mainly because Turkish government is against Kurdish rights in general. So you're just gonna omit the fact that they have a decades long history of bombing and killing innocent civilians including kids?

esperent 6y ago
I've tried to find information about this, and all I can find is that Turkey claimed they committed war crimes, but when the US and UN investigated they couldn't find any supporting evidence.
_bohm 6y ago
The PKK was formed in reaction to intense oppression of the Kurdish people by the Turkish State. The Kurdish language and traditional garb were banned, and Kurdish history was not allowed to be taught. The Turkish State also burned Kurdish villages and slaughtered many Kurds. None of this is to say that the PKK has not committed acts which would surely offend western sensibilities, but simply slapping the "terrorist" label on them and calling it a day is not a nuanced way to approach the discussion.
- roadbeats 6y ago
  I always felt surprised how people are when they throw such "facts" very confidently. What's your source ? Have you been there yourself? How did you end up convincing yourself to know the truth so well that you can transmit to others without leaving any room for discussion? This reminds me something I quite dislike: the tone of fascism. It's widespread like a virus these days.
- jmacjmac 6y ago
  > The Kurdish language and traditional garb were banned How about nowadays? Nothing is banned yet we still see PKK bombing public buses in our cities. Seriously, when can we call these guys "terrorist"? These problems were real, yes, Kurdish language was banned, people couldn't say they were Kurdish without any pressure back then but these days are no more. Does "cultural ban happened in the past" justify what PKK is doing now?
  - _bohm 6y ago
    Given that I'm very far removed from these events, I don't think it's my place to make strong judgements about what is and isn't justified in what has obviously been a very long and bitter conflict. That being said, I don't think the PKK explicitly uses these past offenses to justify their continued activity in the conflict. My understanding is that they continue fighting because the Turkish Kurds still lack any meaningful political representation, they oppose Erdogan's push towards Islamic national identity, and because the Turkish State continues to carry out military strikes against Kurdish targets outside Turkey's borders. I'm by no means an authority on this topic so feel free to correct me if I've made any incorrect statements. It sounds like you're much close to this conflict than I am, in which case my heart goes out to you in wishing for a peaceful resolution to all of this.
    - jmacjmac 6y ago
      Just to clarify, %20-25 of the population is Kurdish in Turkey. In elections, PKK affiliated legal party gets half of the Kurdish votes and other half goes to Erdogan roughly. So, there is no single Kurdish identity in Turkey, more like split between these two. Ofcourse, there is a few percent which is not among these two. So, if you ask is there any Kurdish people in the government, yes there are a lot. Erdogan gets half of the Kurdish votes, so we can say Kurdish Erdogan supporters have enough representation. PKK affiliated party is not in government, because they didn't get enough votes but they are in parliament ofcourse representing their %10 votes. I don't think PKK cares about Erdogan's Islamic Turkey dream. You don't see PKK or it's legal party saying anything about it in Turkey, I think they mention it only when they are talking to western media :) In Turkey, there is secular opposition which is rougly %40-50, they stand against Erdogan's Islamic push but they still lack of %50 + 1 votes to dethrone Erdogan unfortunately. PKK says they want federalism for Kurdish cities, you can advocate for that, it's okay, their legal party is doing that, that's fine. But when you're holding guns and saying my way or high way, that's a big no. So, if they really care about democratic, secular Turkey, they can put guns aside, get together with opposition in Turkey.
deleted 6y ago
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