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I'll leave this here in case anyone wants to argue YPG is not PKK. YPG is a literal terrorist organization. Imagine ISIS had a Facebook page. "Senior US genera

I'll leave this here in case anyone wants to argue YPG is not PKK. YPG is a literal terrorist organization. Imagine ISIS had a Facebook page. "Senior US general explains rebranding YPG away from terror group PKK" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHpaIO-Pj10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHpaIO-Pj10

sneak 6y ago
If ISIS had a facebook page, I would be angry at facebook if they censored it. Related: People claimed Cloudflare used to protect ISIS sites. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/19/cloudflare-accused-by-anonymous-helping-isis https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/19/cloudflar...
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  if someone set up a facebook page to promote killing you and everyone you love, and making your life hell, i think you would think differently.
  - sneak 6y ago
    That's not accurate.
    - marshmallow_12 6y ago
      why not? The only difference is that ISIS makes life hell for a larger group of people. Does that lessen its impact on an individual?
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
depends on the pov. What's a terrorist to one side is a freedom fighter to the other. from this month: > ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Monday his ruling AK Party and its nationalist allies may start work on drafting a new constitution, less than four years after overhauling the previous constitution to grant his office sweeping powers. the coup was justified and it's a tragedy Erdogan hasn't been removed from power. The AKP/Erdogan is no longer serving its people. Erdogan/AKP are the real "terrorists".
- aranelsurion 6y ago
  While I agree with the view that Erdogan/AKP might be the worst thing that happened to Turkey, the people behind the coup in 2016 wouldn't make things any better. The group behind the coup had a perfectly happy marriage with AKP until around 2013, and both of them being islamic groups together they destroyed whatever they could from the previously mostly-secular state. [1] Whatever you see as a problem in Turkey today (say, non-existent separation of powers, human rights abuses, journalists in jail, collapsed legal system, government censorship, economic troubles... and a long list of other things) had their beginnings in this period. Most of the power they amassed in Turkey was the direct result of this alliance with AKP, and their people filled the government posts while AKP replaced the old guard. After 2013, as a result of internal power struggles this alliance broke up, and in 2016 this organization attempted the coup you mentioned. If they had their way, power would be shifted from one islamic political organization (AKP) to another ("Cemaat"/The Service/FETO or whatever people call them nowadays) who has even less legitimacy. Anyways, sorry for the wall of text on this comparatively trivial matter, it's just that I find it unfortunate that those guys are now being seen/depicted as some kind of failed saviours in the western media, while in reality they are anything but. [1] which was maintained under the shadow of the army and wasn't nowhere near perfect either. Though I'd personally take that one over this one any day.
torb-xyz 6y ago
Funny that you compare YPG to ISIS. YPG/YPJ (alongside others in SDF) where some of the most successful militia in fighting back against ISIS (so much that there where some strategic co-operation with US forces in fighting ISIS). They also generally fight for Kurdish rights and, ethnic pluralism in general (saved several Yazidi towns from ISIS for example), women's rights and democracy (including forms of local direct democracy seen few other places). The reason PKK and/or YPG/YPJ is on some terrorist lists is mainly because Turkish government is against Kurdish rights in general. Turkey tend to claim any group fighting for Kurdish independence and/or rights to be terrorists. So if they're ”terrorists” in the same way apartheid South-Africa saw Nelson Mandela, ANC and others fighting apartheid as ”terrorists”.
- kobasa 6y ago
  >The reason PKK and/or YPG/YPJ is on some terrorist lists is mainly because Turkish government is against Kurdish rights in general. So you're just gonna omit the fact that they have a decades long history of bombing and killing innocent civilians including kids?
  - esperent 6y ago
    I've tried to find information about this, and all I can find is that Turkey claimed they committed war crimes, but when the US and UN investigated they couldn't find any supporting evidence.
  - _bohm 6y ago
    The PKK was formed in reaction to intense oppression of the Kurdish people by the Turkish State. The Kurdish language and traditional garb were banned, and Kurdish history was not allowed to be taught. The Turkish State also burned Kurdish villages and slaughtered many Kurds. None of this is to say that the PKK has not committed acts which would surely offend western sensibilities, but simply slapping the "terrorist" label on them and calling it a day is not a nuanced way to approach the discussion.
    - roadbeats 6y ago
kingofpandora 6y ago
Remember that the invasion of Afrin was done by Turkey in conjunction with jihadist terrorist groups. Turkey has no problem with terrorism, only Kurds.
nojokes 6y ago
The YPG and affiliated groups are designated as terrorist organizations by only Turkey and Qatar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units 20 million Kurds not having a state despite their will to have it is a major injustice in this world.

sneak 6y ago

If ISIS had a facebook page, I would be angry at facebook if they censored it. Related: People claimed Cloudflare used to protect ISIS sites. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/19/cloudflare-accused-by-anonymous-helping-isis https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/19/cloudflar...

marshmallow_12 6y ago
if someone set up a facebook page to promote killing you and everyone you love, and making your life hell, i think you would think differently.
- sneak 6y ago
  That's not accurate.
  - marshmallow_12 6y ago
    why not? The only difference is that ISIS makes life hell for a larger group of people. Does that lessen its impact on an individual?

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

depends on the pov. What's a terrorist to one side is a freedom fighter to the other. from this month: > ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Monday his ruling AK Party and its nationalist allies may start work on drafting a new constitution, less than four years after overhauling the previous constitution to grant his office sweeping powers. the coup was justified and it's a tragedy Erdogan hasn't been removed from power. The AKP/Erdogan is no longer serving its people. Erdogan/AKP are the real "terrorists".

aranelsurion 6y ago
While I agree with the view that Erdogan/AKP might be the worst thing that happened to Turkey, the people behind the coup in 2016 wouldn't make things any better. The group behind the coup had a perfectly happy marriage with AKP until around 2013, and both of them being islamic groups together they destroyed whatever they could from the previously mostly-secular state. [1] Whatever you see as a problem in Turkey today (say, non-existent separation of powers, human rights abuses, journalists in jail, collapsed legal system, government censorship, economic troubles... and a long list of other things) had their beginnings in this period. Most of the power they amassed in Turkey was the direct result of this alliance with AKP, and their people filled the government posts while AKP replaced the old guard. After 2013, as a result of internal power struggles this alliance broke up, and in 2016 this organization attempted the coup you mentioned. If they had their way, power would be shifted from one islamic political organization (AKP) to another ("Cemaat"/The Service/FETO or whatever people call them nowadays) who has even less legitimacy. Anyways, sorry for the wall of text on this comparatively trivial matter, it's just that I find it unfortunate that those guys are now being seen/depicted as some kind of failed saviours in the western media, while in reality they are anything but. [1] which was maintained under the shadow of the army and wasn't nowhere near perfect either. Though I'd personally take that one over this one any day.

torb-xyz 6y ago

Funny that you compare YPG to ISIS. YPG/YPJ (alongside others in SDF) where some of the most successful militia in fighting back against ISIS (so much that there where some strategic co-operation with US forces in fighting ISIS). They also generally fight for Kurdish rights and, ethnic pluralism in general (saved several Yazidi towns from ISIS for example), women's rights and democracy (including forms of local direct democracy seen few other places). The reason PKK and/or YPG/YPJ is on some terrorist lists is mainly because Turkish government is against Kurdish rights in general. Turkey tend to claim any group fighting for Kurdish independence and/or rights to be terrorists. So if they're ”terrorists” in the same way apartheid South-Africa saw Nelson Mandela, ANC and others fighting apartheid as ”terrorists”.

kobasa 6y ago
>The reason PKK and/or YPG/YPJ is on some terrorist lists is mainly because Turkish government is against Kurdish rights in general. So you're just gonna omit the fact that they have a decades long history of bombing and killing innocent civilians including kids?
- esperent 6y ago
  I've tried to find information about this, and all I can find is that Turkey claimed they committed war crimes, but when the US and UN investigated they couldn't find any supporting evidence.
- _bohm 6y ago
  The PKK was formed in reaction to intense oppression of the Kurdish people by the Turkish State. The Kurdish language and traditional garb were banned, and Kurdish history was not allowed to be taught. The Turkish State also burned Kurdish villages and slaughtered many Kurds. None of this is to say that the PKK has not committed acts which would surely offend western sensibilities, but simply slapping the "terrorist" label on them and calling it a day is not a nuanced way to approach the discussion.
  - roadbeats 6y ago

kingofpandora 6y ago

Remember that the invasion of Afrin was done by Turkey in conjunction with jihadist terrorist groups. Turkey has no problem with terrorism, only Kurds.

nojokes 6y ago

The YPG and affiliated groups are designated as terrorist organizations by only Turkey and Qatar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Protection_Units 20 million Kurds not having a state despite their will to have it is a major injustice in this world.