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What I find astonishing, is how much things have changed in a mere 30 years. Back then, I was working at a local pizza place. I'd worked there for 6 years, bo

What I find astonishing, is how much things have changed in a mere 30 years. Back then, I was working at a local pizza place. I'd worked there for 6 years, both in high school, as a delivery person, and eventually as the main cook/whatnot, in College. We made as much as we could from scratch. Many pizza places order everything pre-made, pre-cut, including sauce and dough. We made our own dough, sauce, tonnes of home-made prep. Anyhow, back in the day... we used this thing called "cash". It worked perfectly fine, too. People would place orders, then show up and pay with .... cash! People would place delivery orders, and pay with ... cash! Out of 500+ orders a night, maybe... perhaps once a week, rarely twice a week, we'd have one customer not pick up their order. And... we'd eat it! Problem solved. There were no charge backs. No concept of someone showing ID?! To buy food?! No worries about losing 2-5% to the bank/cards. No online ordering. No one had any issues with this, because this was how everyone did it. Everywhere. If there was a large order, people would pre-pay for some of it. I'm taking, 20 pizzas + chicken+spaghetti dinners or some such. Per-paying for large orders upset no one, it was logical and sensible. I get that today, as everyone has "bought in" to the idea of using credit cards, that people have little choice. One must compete with other restaurants, or lose money. And even I, I strong advocate for cash, tends to carry less of it. But I still wonder ; just who has won here, and who as lost? Have the restaurants won? Well, no. They pay more, have to have additional hardware, have issues with chargebacks, and more. And do customers benefit? Not really, for everyone is paying 3 to 5% more for food, just to cover charge costs and losses, and then many of the people paying? Are sometimes paying 25%, or even double, once they get around to paying off their card a year later. No one wins. Except the banks.

Arnt 6y ago
Well, nowadays you won't get as many fake bills, and you don't have to pay the banks as much for armed guards that drive cash from place to place in an armed truck.
- cycomanic 6y ago
  Not sure how much you paid for banking, but where I was it was always free or very low charges, nowhere close to even 2% of all your payments (which is a minimum estimate for credit card charges).
  - Arnt 6y ago
    Banks make a profit where I live, and the armoured trucks aren't free, and the armed guards are paid, and the cash lost through robbieries is replaced. One way or another the banks' customers pay for all that.
- bbarnett 6y ago
  We'd just walk across the street and drop cash into the bank deposit slot. What armed guards? Obviously things can change for large businesses. Even employee theft is less of a concern, when (like the restaurants highlighted here), it's mostly a mom and pop type concern...
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    I would worry about the safety of the employee doing the bank run. You close your pizza joint at midnight and what do you do with day’s cash? Leave it in the restaurant overnight and deposit it in daylight the next day, or send an employee to the bank drop box at 12:30 in the morning? Even 33 years ago, I got more training and policy drilling on how to do the bank drop than I did on sales to work my Electronics Boutique mall job.
    - bbarnett 6y ago
      I guess it depends upon the crime rate in the local area. Realistically, at the time, I'd be carrying between $500 to $1000 in my pocket, cash, from delivery payments. And usually -- from 11am to 2am, it was very slow. Generally one person in the pizza place, in a strip mall, with every other business closed. It would be just as easy to walk in, and demand the cash then.
      - Arnt 6y ago
        Yes, the crime rate. The bank has trained people to check the cash being paid in, has a vault in each branch office, and trucks+staff for transporting cash between branches, and insurance premiums on losses during storage and transport. The insurance agency's premiums will depend on the typical losses and on how much money the bank spends on checking and guarding the money, and all of those will tend to vary with the crime rate. If there are more forgeries around, the banks need to either spend more on detecting them, spend more on insurance against losses relating to forged money, or encourage customers to use electronic transfers.
gnopgnip 6y ago
This is looking back with rose colored glasses. It costs more than 3-5% to handle cash, both on the merchant side and the customers.
- bbarnett 6y ago
  As a small pizza place, if I take a credit card payment, I must: - have some way to process it. This requires hardware, often leased, sometimes owned. - which requires an extra phone line, OR, internet connection - and requires a service, and fees to be paid to that service (between 3 to 5% depending upon card). - and, the money can be challenged (chargebacks), which requires loads of time to deal with... or you just loose the cash When I take cash, I require... none of the above! In both cases, I have a bank account, deposit fees, and more from the banks. I'm guessing you're going to say things like "employees steal cash" or "fake bank notes" or some other such thing. Yet in 6+ years, we had one counterfeit $20. But if not, what other hidden fees are built into cash?
  - unpolloloco 6y ago
    A few more costs: Risk of theft (employee, passerby, organized crime). Theft is way down largely due to lack of cash. Convenience/time. It takes (paid) time to drop cash. And customer time to manage cash. And lost sales due to people not having enough cash on them. Lower average sales. People spend more when using cards than cash due to psychological reasons.
SecurityLagoon 6y ago
This is an incredibly pessimistic view of electronic payment. Cards are so convenient. Tap and go, no fiddling round with change, no grimey coins filling your pockets, and the ability to pay remotely. Even the "benefits" of cash you mentioned, like no charge-back, are a disadvantage if you are actually in a situation where you got scammed or similar.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
> No one wins. Except the banks. Less theft, both from employees and others, less tax evasion, more automation needing fewer man hours for accounting, etc. Businesses didn’t choose to accept cards for no reason.

Arnt 6y ago

Well, nowadays you won't get as many fake bills, and you don't have to pay the banks as much for armed guards that drive cash from place to place in an armed truck.

cycomanic 6y ago
Not sure how much you paid for banking, but where I was it was always free or very low charges, nowhere close to even 2% of all your payments (which is a minimum estimate for credit card charges).
- Arnt 6y ago
  Banks make a profit where I live, and the armoured trucks aren't free, and the armed guards are paid, and the cash lost through robbieries is replaced. One way or another the banks' customers pay for all that.
bbarnett 6y ago
We'd just walk across the street and drop cash into the bank deposit slot. What armed guards? Obviously things can change for large businesses. Even employee theft is less of a concern, when (like the restaurants highlighted here), it's mostly a mom and pop type concern...
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I would worry about the safety of the employee doing the bank run. You close your pizza joint at midnight and what do you do with day’s cash? Leave it in the restaurant overnight and deposit it in daylight the next day, or send an employee to the bank drop box at 12:30 in the morning? Even 33 years ago, I got more training and policy drilling on how to do the bank drop than I did on sales to work my Electronics Boutique mall job.
  - bbarnett 6y ago
    I guess it depends upon the crime rate in the local area. Realistically, at the time, I'd be carrying between $500 to $1000 in my pocket, cash, from delivery payments. And usually -- from 11am to 2am, it was very slow. Generally one person in the pizza place, in a strip mall, with every other business closed. It would be just as easy to walk in, and demand the cash then.
    - Arnt 6y ago
      Yes, the crime rate. The bank has trained people to check the cash being paid in, has a vault in each branch office, and trucks+staff for transporting cash between branches, and insurance premiums on losses during storage and transport. The insurance agency's premiums will depend on the typical losses and on how much money the bank spends on checking and guarding the money, and all of those will tend to vary with the crime rate. If there are more forgeries around, the banks need to either spend more on detecting them, spend more on insurance against losses relating to forged money, or encourage customers to use electronic transfers.

gnopgnip 6y ago

This is looking back with rose colored glasses. It costs more than 3-5% to handle cash, both on the merchant side and the customers.

bbarnett 6y ago
As a small pizza place, if I take a credit card payment, I must: - have some way to process it. This requires hardware, often leased, sometimes owned. - which requires an extra phone line, OR, internet connection - and requires a service, and fees to be paid to that service (between 3 to 5% depending upon card). - and, the money can be challenged (chargebacks), which requires loads of time to deal with... or you just loose the cash When I take cash, I require... none of the above! In both cases, I have a bank account, deposit fees, and more from the banks. I'm guessing you're going to say things like "employees steal cash" or "fake bank notes" or some other such thing. Yet in 6+ years, we had one counterfeit $20. But if not, what other hidden fees are built into cash?
- unpolloloco 6y ago
  A few more costs: Risk of theft (employee, passerby, organized crime). Theft is way down largely due to lack of cash. Convenience/time. It takes (paid) time to drop cash. And customer time to manage cash. And lost sales due to people not having enough cash on them. Lower average sales. People spend more when using cards than cash due to psychological reasons.

SecurityLagoon 6y ago

This is an incredibly pessimistic view of electronic payment. Cards are so convenient. Tap and go, no fiddling round with change, no grimey coins filling your pockets, and the ability to pay remotely. Even the "benefits" of cash you mentioned, like no charge-back, are a disadvantage if you are actually in a situation where you got scammed or similar.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

> No one wins. Except the banks. Less theft, both from employees and others, less tax evasion, more automation needing fewer man hours for accounting, etc. Businesses didn’t choose to accept cards for no reason.