5 ms·

The author also wrote a blog post about how much he hates wearing anti-covid masks https://gavinhoward.com/2021/02/boycotting-petty-tyrant-businesses/ https://g

The author also wrote a blog post about how much he hates wearing anti-covid masks https://gavinhoward.com/2021/02/boycotting-petty-tyrant-businesses/ https://gavinhoward.com/2021/02/boycotting-petty-tyrant-busi.... Somehow I’m not surprised. Also bc might not be quite the yardstick when it comes to software that needs to be secure.

oblio 6y ago
Oh, and I see he posted the link himself. Gavin, the behavior you describe in your mask blog post is that of a inconsiderate jerk. What good is a mask in your pocket?!?
- marzullo 6y ago
  It's still mind boggling to me that enforcing public safety procedures can be interpreted as any sort of tyranny. He purposefully goes out of his way to not wear a mask, but still takes the time to keep one in his pocket to just see how far he can go breaking the rules.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    I have trouble taking seriously claims that public health orders are tyranny when I can remember when the US had conscription.
  - ghoward 6y ago
    Gavin here. Mask mandates from governors are not, in fact, rules. Executive orders are not laws. See https://gavinhoward.com/2020/10/executive-agencies-cannot-make-laws/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/10/executive-agencies-cannot-ma... . If a business decides to enforce their rule, well, then we both know that it would be best that I do as little business with them as possible.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ghoward 6y ago
  Gavin here. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293979 .
  - oblio 6y ago
    You're like that person in the Adult Swim sketch about Google being a guy, where the person asking "Google" about something gets a million results showing A) and just 1 result showing B), and they decide to take B). First of all, if you're really arguing that masks affect mental health more than they save lives (https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matter/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matte...), I don't even know what to say. I'd really want to see the science behind this, but I suspect there isn't any real science. Common sense and knowledge of professions where people use a mask for long periods of time should be enough to debunk this. Also, this is truly abhorrent: > Of course, 161,392 people have died. (Oh whoops! It turns out that only 6% of those people died from COVID-19 alone, so it’s really 9,700 deaths) If my car breaks don't work, I ostensibly die because I'll be crushed when my car falls of a cliff, but the real cause of my death is the fact that the car breaks didn't work. For the other article, gee, I wonder if the folks behind it have an agenda to push: "Townhall: <<Conservative>> News, Cartoons, Top Stories". Anyway, do realize that this is a global phenomenon, people aren't out to get your "freedoms" and countries which are far freer than the US have realized that Covid is a real pandemic and treat it using real science, not pseudo-sience peddled by crackpots or even worse, people with a hidden agenda (usually one about making $$$). I know I won't change your mind, but please break out of your bubble. Find international sources, use Google Translate to see what they say, compare, contrast, think critically. Also, read up on your history and check out what they did to fight the 1919 flu, for example. Or SARS. Or what they're doing all over East Asia, mostly successfully. Oh, by the way, your argument makes you look even worse than you think it does. It's all about ME ME ME! "There's a tiny chance that masks hurt me" and "there's a tiny chance that masks don't help others as much as people say", so basically, "f** everyone else in that case, I don't want to be inconvenienced".
    - ghoward 6y ago
      I think you misunderstand my arguments. I think the ubiquity of masks hurts everybody.
CyberRabbi 6y ago
What does his position on masks have to do with the arguments he is making here?
- throwaway19937 6y ago
  > What does his position on masks have to do with the arguments he is making here? The Internet doesn't have a shortage of rants. If you're wrong about other areas then why should I care about your opinions on technology?
  - CyberRabbi 6y ago
    Because he might have more expertise and experience in technology than medicine. We should evaluate arguments on their merits alone, ad hominem is destructive to effective discussion.
    - throwaway19937 6y ago
      > We should evaluate arguments on their merits alone, ad hominem is destructive to effective discussion. That doesn't consider the opportunity cost; time that I spend on this argument can't be spent on another better argument. There are more arguments then I could read in a lifetime so I focus my attention on people who are otherwise sensible.
      - CyberRabbi 6y ago
        > so I focus my attention on people who are otherwise sensible. Participation in a discussion usually implies an interest and a willingness to spend your time considering various arguments. If you only limit your exposure to arguments made by people who agree with you in other domains then I have to conclude your interest in this space is not very high.
        throwaway19937 6y ago
        > Participation is a discussion usually implies an interest and a willingness to spend your time considering various arguments. My only posts in this thread have been to explain why I flagged the post and why I feel it's valid to dismiss the author based on his other views. The author's position on masks is that he's too precious to comply with local laws, that businesses complying with said laws should be boycotted, and that executive orders aren't actually laws so he isn't bound by them. The first two beliefs are merely antisocial; it's the last claim that causes me to place him in the crank category. > If you only limit your exposure to arguments made by people who agree with you in other domains then I have to assume your interest in this space is not very high. My political beliefs are sufficiently bizarre that at best few people agree with them; if anything, he and I probably have some beliefs in common.
ghoward 6y ago
For why I used bc, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293876 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293876 . For masks, see https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/masks-and-carbon-dioxide/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/masks-and-carbon-dioxide/ and https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matter/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matte... . In essence, those who claim that masks work might be right, but they also ignore other factors that, if considered, might show that masks are worse for us overall.
- adamnemecek 6y ago
  Your models don’t agree with experimental data.
  - ghoward 6y ago
    They don't agree with _some_ experimental data, but yes.
    - adamnemecek 6y ago
      Show me experimental data that they agree with.
fwip 6y ago
He seems to have many, ah, "controversial" opinions: https://campaign.gavinhoward.com/platform/ https://campaign.gavinhoward.com/platform/ On religion and LGBTQ issues: > A strong, free nation can only be made up of religious and virtuous individuals, strong nuclear families with a cisgender father and a cisgender mother, and a lively and effective civil society, all protected under the wise framework of the Constitution as it was intended by our Founding Fathers. > To have a virtuous people, America must return to its religious roots. > Strong, nuclear families consisting of a cisgender father and a cisgender mother are the “fundamental units of society." All governments under the Constitution should protect and encourage them and discourage all other kinds of families made through voluntary actions. On the right to vote and welfare: > they who have actually paid for the services of government, and thus, should have a say in how it runs. Those who haven’t, and get themselves addicted to welfare, should not, for they do not pay the price of living in society. > In addition, all government welfare is waste. You can look at the sidebar for more fun tags, to see his opinions about Black Lives Matter (evil), "censorship" (Facebook and Squarespace taking down his favorite conspiracy pages), and many tags about his Mormon faith, which as an atheist, is probably not my place to criticize.

oblio 6y ago

Oh, and I see he posted the link himself. Gavin, the behavior you describe in your mask blog post is that of a inconsiderate jerk. What good is a mask in your pocket?!?

marzullo 6y ago
It's still mind boggling to me that enforcing public safety procedures can be interpreted as any sort of tyranny. He purposefully goes out of his way to not wear a mask, but still takes the time to keep one in his pocket to just see how far he can go breaking the rules.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  I have trouble taking seriously claims that public health orders are tyranny when I can remember when the US had conscription.
- ghoward 6y ago
  Gavin here. Mask mandates from governors are not, in fact, rules. Executive orders are not laws. See https://gavinhoward.com/2020/10/executive-agencies-cannot-make-laws/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/10/executive-agencies-cannot-ma... . If a business decides to enforce their rule, well, then we both know that it would be best that I do as little business with them as possible.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ghoward 6y ago
Gavin here. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293979 .
- oblio 6y ago
  You're like that person in the Adult Swim sketch about Google being a guy, where the person asking "Google" about something gets a million results showing A) and just 1 result showing B), and they decide to take B). First of all, if you're really arguing that masks affect mental health more than they save lives (https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matter/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matte...), I don't even know what to say. I'd really want to see the science behind this, but I suspect there isn't any real science. Common sense and knowledge of professions where people use a mask for long periods of time should be enough to debunk this. Also, this is truly abhorrent: > Of course, 161,392 people have died. (Oh whoops! It turns out that only 6% of those people died from COVID-19 alone, so it’s really 9,700 deaths) If my car breaks don't work, I ostensibly die because I'll be crushed when my car falls of a cliff, but the real cause of my death is the fact that the car breaks didn't work. For the other article, gee, I wonder if the folks behind it have an agenda to push: "Townhall: <<Conservative>> News, Cartoons, Top Stories". Anyway, do realize that this is a global phenomenon, people aren't out to get your "freedoms" and countries which are far freer than the US have realized that Covid is a real pandemic and treat it using real science, not pseudo-sience peddled by crackpots or even worse, people with a hidden agenda (usually one about making $$$). I know I won't change your mind, but please break out of your bubble. Find international sources, use Google Translate to see what they say, compare, contrast, think critically. Also, read up on your history and check out what they did to fight the 1919 flu, for example. Or SARS. Or what they're doing all over East Asia, mostly successfully. Oh, by the way, your argument makes you look even worse than you think it does. It's all about ME ME ME! "There's a tiny chance that masks hurt me" and "there's a tiny chance that masks don't help others as much as people say", so basically, "f** everyone else in that case, I don't want to be inconvenienced".
  - ghoward 6y ago
    I think you misunderstand my arguments. I think the ubiquity of masks hurts everybody.

CyberRabbi 6y ago

What does his position on masks have to do with the arguments he is making here?

throwaway19937 6y ago
> What does his position on masks have to do with the arguments he is making here? The Internet doesn't have a shortage of rants. If you're wrong about other areas then why should I care about your opinions on technology?
- CyberRabbi 6y ago
  Because he might have more expertise and experience in technology than medicine. We should evaluate arguments on their merits alone, ad hominem is destructive to effective discussion.
  - throwaway19937 6y ago
    > We should evaluate arguments on their merits alone, ad hominem is destructive to effective discussion. That doesn't consider the opportunity cost; time that I spend on this argument can't be spent on another better argument. There are more arguments then I could read in a lifetime so I focus my attention on people who are otherwise sensible.
    - CyberRabbi 6y ago
      > so I focus my attention on people who are otherwise sensible. Participation in a discussion usually implies an interest and a willingness to spend your time considering various arguments. If you only limit your exposure to arguments made by people who agree with you in other domains then I have to conclude your interest in this space is not very high.
      - throwaway19937 6y ago
        > Participation is a discussion usually implies an interest and a willingness to spend your time considering various arguments. My only posts in this thread have been to explain why I flagged the post and why I feel it's valid to dismiss the author based on his other views. The author's position on masks is that he's too precious to comply with local laws, that businesses complying with said laws should be boycotted, and that executive orders aren't actually laws so he isn't bound by them. The first two beliefs are merely antisocial; it's the last claim that causes me to place him in the crank category. > If you only limit your exposure to arguments made by people who agree with you in other domains then I have to assume your interest in this space is not very high. My political beliefs are sufficiently bizarre that at best few people agree with them; if anything, he and I probably have some beliefs in common.

ghoward 6y ago

For why I used bc, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293876 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293876 . For masks, see https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/masks-and-carbon-dioxide/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/masks-and-carbon-dioxide/ and https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matter/ https://gavinhoward.com/2020/08/in-science-all-factors-matte... . In essence, those who claim that masks work might be right, but they also ignore other factors that, if considered, might show that masks are worse for us overall.

adamnemecek 6y ago
Your models don’t agree with experimental data.
- ghoward 6y ago
  They don't agree with _some_ experimental data, but yes.
  - adamnemecek 6y ago
    Show me experimental data that they agree with.

fwip 6y ago

He seems to have many, ah, "controversial" opinions: https://campaign.gavinhoward.com/platform/ https://campaign.gavinhoward.com/platform/ On religion and LGBTQ issues: > A strong, free nation can only be made up of religious and virtuous individuals, strong nuclear families with a cisgender father and a cisgender mother, and a lively and effective civil society, all protected under the wise framework of the Constitution as it was intended by our Founding Fathers. > To have a virtuous people, America must return to its religious roots. > Strong, nuclear families consisting of a cisgender father and a cisgender mother are the “fundamental units of society." All governments under the Constitution should protect and encourage them and discourage all other kinds of families made through voluntary actions. On the right to vote and welfare: > they who have actually paid for the services of government, and thus, should have a say in how it runs. Those who haven’t, and get themselves addicted to welfare, should not, for they do not pay the price of living in society. > In addition, all government welfare is waste. You can look at the sidebar for more fun tags, to see his opinions about Black Lives Matter (evil), "censorship" (Facebook and Squarespace taking down his favorite conspiracy pages), and many tags about his Mormon faith, which as an atheist, is probably not my place to criticize.