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The fact that Fizzi was able to get implement rollback netcode for a game by just directly editing the assembly code without any access to a the game's source c

The fact that Fizzi was able to get implement rollback netcode for a game by just directly editing the assembly code without any access to a the game's source code is insane. The delay based netcode for the newest smash game, Smash Ultimate(2018), is so bad that it went from being the biggest fighting game of all time in terms competitive playerbase to basically having no scene at all due to covid killing lan tournaments. No one wants to play ultimate online. I wonder if this comparison is what caused nintendo to cease and desisted an online melee tournament that intended to use rollback.

kibwen 6y ago
> I wonder if this comparison is what caused nintendo to cease and desisted an online melee tournament that intended to use rollback. No, Nintendo famously doesn't bother to understand or pay attention to details like this. Their higher-ups can't be embarrassed because they barely understand the very concept of networking, let alone how it affects their own online multiplayer, let alone the distinction between delay-based and rollback, let alone how such a distinction might manifest in a foreign tournament on the far sign of the world. Nintendo's lawyers, on the other hand, are predictable: advertise anything about a modded game of theirs and the C&Ds come out. It's the same reason they went after Project M.
- witherk 6y ago
  But they really aren't that predictable. There have been other events after the big house that didn't get a nastygram. Who knows why pokemon showdown is allowed to exist. The Melee community is pretty crazy though I would imagine if nintendo keeps coming at them they might just decompile the whole game and move to new version sanitized of nintendo ip.
ThatPlayer 6y ago
Was it done in-game? I figured it was done with the Dolphin (Gamecube) emulator, the same way GGPO was first implemented for arcade emulators.
- witherk 6y ago
  I'm sure a lot of the work is done through the dolphin fork, but a lot of code also has to be injected into the melee iso as well. Which is why project slippi doesn't allow rollback for all dolphin games (sorry project M)
Klonoar 6y ago
He's got an interview somewhere where he notes the trick comes down to the fact that lightning mode exists in Melee. It's all fun stuff - the dev discord is also open for people who enjoy this kind of stuff, some really knowledgeable people in there.

kibwen 6y ago

> I wonder if this comparison is what caused nintendo to cease and desisted an online melee tournament that intended to use rollback. No, Nintendo famously doesn't bother to understand or pay attention to details like this. Their higher-ups can't be embarrassed because they barely understand the very concept of networking, let alone how it affects their own online multiplayer, let alone the distinction between delay-based and rollback, let alone how such a distinction might manifest in a foreign tournament on the far sign of the world. Nintendo's lawyers, on the other hand, are predictable: advertise anything about a modded game of theirs and the C&Ds come out. It's the same reason they went after Project M.

witherk 6y ago
But they really aren't that predictable. There have been other events after the big house that didn't get a nastygram. Who knows why pokemon showdown is allowed to exist. The Melee community is pretty crazy though I would imagine if nintendo keeps coming at them they might just decompile the whole game and move to new version sanitized of nintendo ip.

ThatPlayer 6y ago

Was it done in-game? I figured it was done with the Dolphin (Gamecube) emulator, the same way GGPO was first implemented for arcade emulators.

witherk 6y ago
I'm sure a lot of the work is done through the dolphin fork, but a lot of code also has to be injected into the melee iso as well. Which is why project slippi doesn't allow rollback for all dolphin games (sorry project M)

Klonoar 6y ago

He's got an interview somewhere where he notes the trick comes down to the fact that lightning mode exists in Melee. It's all fun stuff - the dev discord is also open for people who enjoy this kind of stuff, some really knowledgeable people in there.